I have been bugging a local dealer mere in MA about the Mini D and last week they told me BMW is going to release 500 D's to the USA in 3 market areas

 

I think he might have been confusing the MINI D with the MINI E, which is going under a field trial of 500 MINIs in NY, NJ, and LA.

 

I guess the dealer was just trying to get me in the door. I still don't know why BMW will not bring the diesels over here. I believe with the changes in the fuel that the MINI D would pass the EPA stuff. Mercedes is pushing their diesels. VW is selling the Passat. Honda and Toyota are doing diesels here in 2010.

I owned Peugeot diesels in the 80's and they were great even though it was a little more difficult than now to find fuel stations. My wagon got 36 mph. Diesels are the major sellers in Europe.

 

At least at the moment, the price premium of diesel over gas wipes out most of the cost savings.

For instance, my wife and I were considering a TDI Jetta a few months ago, but with diesel being ~.80 more than gas per gallon, 41mpg-diesel wasn't really any better than the 31mpg that the GTI got.

Also, the MINI D has a notably higher initial cost, as well.

At least right now, it doesn't make a lot of financial sense compared to the petrol MINI.

 

I have absolutely no insider knowledge, but it wouldn't surprise me to see MINI offer the D over here within the next year or 2. They're starting to offer diesels in the BMW lineup...

 

I brought a MINI D to my dealer (press car) and I knew more about it than he did, although he was pretty excited about the possibility of selling them.

With fuel prices what they are now, the $/mile is about the same for diesel, the only benefit is longevity of an engine and that cool diesel sound. Fuel has to go up again (or diesel has to come down to normal gasoline prices) for it to make economic sense for people to purchase a diesel given the higher initial price point.

 

We might get them next year. http://www.motoringfile.com/page/3/

 

Yeah, I read that, too. Just because the certify it doesn't mean they'll sell it. I've seen, driven, and certified cars that never made it to dealer lots. There can be lag time between certification and start of production for export which is plenty of time to decide that the market isn't right for that vehicle. It just makes it easier to sell next model year, though - carryover models usually don't get pulled for confirmatory at EPA and the whole shebang.

 

But the MINI D gets about 60 MPG! That is a big savings in the long run. (At least that is what they get here in Germany. I talked to one of the US Dealers here that drove a MINI D in England for a year or so and he was getting over 75MPG with conservative driving..

 

Is that imperial or U.S. gallons? It won't get that mpg in the U.S. - our emissions regulations are tougher than Europe; compare the Euro mpg for a similar model (Jetta tdi) to the model sold in the U.S., they are not the same. The Ford Fiesta Ecotec (diesel) gets 65 mpg on the Euro cycle, but it only gets about 50 mpg in U.S. trim.

 

Like 62Lincoln asked, are we talking US gallons or UK Gallons?

UK Gallons are ~20% bigger than US gallons, so 60mpg UK ~= 50mpg US, and 75mpg UK = 62mpg US.

Obviously 62mpg is still very, very good, though.

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Anyway, just for fun, let's run the numbers to see how much sense it makes financially:

Gas prices are based on US averages for today.


Cooper : ~40mpg Hwy = .025 gal/mile @ $1.85/gal = $0.04625 / mile
Cooper D: ~62mpg Hwy = .01613 gal/mile @ $2.42/gal = $0.03903 / mile
Difference: $0.00722 / mile

Gas Cost per year @ 12,000 miles/year:
Cooper = $555.00
Cooper D = $468.39
Difference = $86.61

Gas Cost per year @ 20,000 miles/year:
Cooper = $925.00
Cooper D = $780.65
Difference = $144.35


Base Price (UK)
Cooper - 13,050 Pounds
Cooper D - 14,120 Pounds

So, the Cooper D commands an 8.2% premium over the Cooper.

If we ASSume a similar premium above the US MINI Cooper base price...

Base Price (US - est.)
Cooper - $19,200
Cooper D - $20,775
Difference - $1,575


So, in order to make up the difference in initial cost:

($1,575) / ($.00722/mile) = 218,144 miles

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So, based on the numbers used, of which many are estimates:

One would have to drive 218,144 miles just to break even between the Cooper and Cooper D.

Of course, there are other advantages and disadvantages to consider between the two, such as longevity, sound, etc, as well as discrepancies in actual MPG and "actual" US cost, possible changes in percentage cost difference between premium and diesel, etc.

However, with gas and diesel prices the way they are CURRENTLY in the U.S., the Cooper D doesn't make "slam-dunk" financial sense, in my opinion.

That being said, neither do a lot of Hybrids like the Prius compared to something like a Corolla, but that doesn't stop them from selling... so the Cooper D could very well be a big seller for MINI despite only being cheaper than the Cooper in the LONG run... especially, if it became the MPG "King" with a highway rating in the 60's.

Either way, it's pure speculation now... although it is fun to think about.

 

I got an average of 46mpg in the MINI D over a weekend of mostly highway, some local, and about 100 miles of a "spirited" club drive - 500 miles in all.

 

I think a lot of the reason people buy the Prius is not because of the better MPG but because of emissions and the whole "eco-friendly" notion. You could put wheels on a turd and sell it to these people if they thought it was "eco-friendly." Oh wait, Toyota already did that!

 

Well, in your case, it would probably cost more to buy AND to operate a MINI D if it is getting 46mpg. That might not even be a big enough mileage advantage to pay the difference between diesel and premium.


Yes, but it's a HYBRID turd!

But yeah, I agree... which is why I said the MINI D may sell well anyway even though it doesn't really make a strong financial case compared to a "regular" Cooper.

 

Sorry my conversion was a little off
Quoting the brochure from the German Dealer.
3.9l for 100km 3.785411 liters per gallon (US)
100km = 60miles
So just under 60mpg
Still good numbers though!

 

Yup, true - I figured it out and it's something like 0.3 cents/mile more for diesel compared to my 32mpg MCS, and that doesn't account for the initial cost. But at the time that I was driving the Cooper D 93 Octane gasoline was $2.88/gal and Diesel was $3.68/gal - it wouldn't take long to realize savings equal to the initial cost difference there.

 

You know... I saw something on Top Gear a season or two ago that the Porsche GT produces less emissions than the Prius. Crazy, huh??

 

All savings, IMO. Even if you plan to run Premium (as most do here), there is nearly a 50% cost penalty for diesel fuel right now. If you use the EPA economy numbers, to match the fuel costs of a justaCooper at 37 MPG, an equivalent diesel would have to get 55.5 MPG to deliver the same cost per mile. That's just dollars and cents. YMMV, and there are a lot more variables in choosing a car (especially a MINI) than just MPG. Ten years ago, or even five, I'd have been all over a Clubman D, but not today.

I had owned diesels for most of my adult life, starting with a dog-slow Rabbit diesel. I sold a Passat TDI that I really enjoyed because I couldn't take the financial punishment anymore. Since I've had the Clubman, I've saved a pile of money on fuel, and had more driving grins than I deserve since.