R50/53 Findings After PPI
#1
10-13-2016, 03:44 PM
Findings After PPI
So as I mentioned in another Thread, I picked up a 2006 JCW in a neighboring state via private party. Obviously the car is 10yrs old but with relatively low miles 61k, so I'm not naive to think it will be perfect.
The PPI uncovered 3 items:
Thermostat leaking
Upper strut mount splitting
Lower control arm bushing tearing
Dealer wants $1900
Indy wants $1500
I'm going with the Indy, but do you guys think that is a fair estimate (parts and labor). Honestly I expected the Indy would have been half what the dealer quoted. And these are common failures?
Thermostat-$304.48
Strut mount-$333.68
Bushing-$795.90
The PPI uncovered 3 items:
Thermostat leaking
Upper strut mount splitting
Lower control arm bushing tearing
Dealer wants $1900
Indy wants $1500
I'm going with the Indy, but do you guys think that is a fair estimate (parts and labor). Honestly I expected the Indy would have been half what the dealer quoted. And these are common failures?
Thermostat-$304.48
Strut mount-$333.68
Bushing-$795.90
#2
10-13-2016, 06:18 PM
#3
10-13-2016, 06:40 PM
Ouch...I should have been a mechanic
Yeah they are common parts to replace, especially the bushings.
Thermostat is $30 oem. Takes about 30 minutes maybe. Add another $20 for antifreeze.
You should do both lca bushings, unless one has been done already. They aren't easy to do but only cost $80 for both, and that's for the good powerflex ones. Not a chance in hell it would take 7 hours to install them on a lift, assuming they charge $100 an hour.
I've only done the bushings and thermostat myself, so cant comment on the front struts for a Mini. I took the back ones off to put a sway bar on and it took about 2 minutes to get them off. Not sure how much more involved the front ones are.
If you have any choice in your area I would shop around some more. Where do you live? Maybe someone can recommend a better shop for you. More probable is that's the price you'll have to pay anywhere :(
Yeah they are common parts to replace, especially the bushings.
Thermostat is $30 oem. Takes about 30 minutes maybe. Add another $20 for antifreeze.
You should do both lca bushings, unless one has been done already. They aren't easy to do but only cost $80 for both, and that's for the good powerflex ones. Not a chance in hell it would take 7 hours to install them on a lift, assuming they charge $100 an hour.
I've only done the bushings and thermostat myself, so cant comment on the front struts for a Mini. I took the back ones off to put a sway bar on and it took about 2 minutes to get them off. Not sure how much more involved the front ones are.
If you have any choice in your area I would shop around some more. Where do you live? Maybe someone can recommend a better shop for you. More probable is that's the price you'll have to pay anywhere :(
#4
10-13-2016, 07:56 PM
Wow bring the car to us as I must be too cheap cause I beat those prices everyday. But markets do vary based on location. Like California I've seen as high as $200 per hour.
No matter what don't put the stock rubber control arm bushings back in, they will just need replaced in 40k. Go with the powerflex as they will never wear out again and are actually cheaper.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/powerf...shing-kit.html
No matter what don't put the stock rubber control arm bushings back in, they will just need replaced in 40k. Go with the powerflex as they will never wear out again and are actually cheaper.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/powerf...shing-kit.html
#5
10-13-2016, 08:39 PM
LCA are a bear if you're on your back in the garage, but doable. With a lift there is no way it should cost $800, even for both. Also go with the powerflex to replace, otherwise you'll be doing it again before long.
Way did my thermostat, and I paid much less than what they quoted you.
The strut mounts are easy. The springs are barely compressed so you can pop them off if you've got a friend to hold the strut while you hit it with an impact to loosen. Same for the reverse, a friend can compress so you can get the nut started, then hit it with an impact until tight.
While you're checking things out, check the crank pulley and see if it's OEM. It's something a PPI may not see as it's behind the wheel well cover and they'll all fall apart sooner or later, regardless of mileage as it is the rubber that goes bad over time. Go with an ATI to replace.
Way did my thermostat, and I paid much less than what they quoted you.
The strut mounts are easy. The springs are barely compressed so you can pop them off if you've got a friend to hold the strut while you hit it with an impact to loosen. Same for the reverse, a friend can compress so you can get the nut started, then hit it with an impact until tight.
While you're checking things out, check the crank pulley and see if it's OEM. It's something a PPI may not see as it's behind the wheel well cover and they'll all fall apart sooner or later, regardless of mileage as it is the rubber that goes bad over time. Go with an ATI to replace.
#6
10-14-2016, 05:11 AM
Thanks guys!
I'm located in southeast PA. Bought the car down in Baltimore. It was a west coast car prior to the last owner.
Unfortunately, I am not a DIYer by any stretch! Honestly, changing out my summer/winter wheels is as far as I've gone
. The Mini is my 3rd car, and ironically enough, the search for one started as a way to avoid the winter setup change over. Moving forward, I knew this could be a gamble financially, as I am a prisoner to others doing the work. But I have always loved the R53 and jumped on it when I got the chance (which was two days ago!). Sometimes the forums make things worse for me, as I become anxious reading about the various "issues" lurking in the distance with these cars obviously given the age/miles. So you guys are going to have to help me big time!
Having said that. This morning I did send an email to Helix Motorsports in Philly as per a recommendation from a friend I recently met who is seriously into Minis. However, getting into Philly is a major PITA for me. But I'm curious to see how much lower their estimate may be.
There is also Bimmerworks in West Chester, PA. So maybe I should reach out to them as well given the overwhelming consensus among you guys that I am getting ripped!
I'm located in southeast PA. Bought the car down in Baltimore. It was a west coast car prior to the last owner.
Unfortunately, I am not a DIYer by any stretch! Honestly, changing out my summer/winter wheels is as far as I've gone
. The Mini is my 3rd car, and ironically enough, the search for one started as a way to avoid the winter setup change over. Moving forward, I knew this could be a gamble financially, as I am a prisoner to others doing the work. But I have always loved the R53 and jumped on it when I got the chance (which was two days ago!). Sometimes the forums make things worse for me, as I become anxious reading about the various "issues" lurking in the distance with these cars obviously given the age/miles. So you guys are going to have to help me big time!Having said that. This morning I did send an email to Helix Motorsports in Philly as per a recommendation from a friend I recently met who is seriously into Minis. However, getting into Philly is a major PITA for me. But I'm curious to see how much lower their estimate may be.
There is also Bimmerworks in West Chester, PA. So maybe I should reach out to them as well given the overwhelming consensus among you guys that I am getting ripped!
#7
10-14-2016, 06:20 AM
Helix used to be a part of this forum, not sure why they are gone now but from what I've read over the last few years they sounded like a very qualified Mini shop.
You don't necessarily need a Mini shop though. Any mechanic or shop can do the strut mount. Any shop can also do the thermostat but my only concern would be about them bleeding the air out correctly. Sometimes it takes a little work to get it all out, it's not hard you just have to make sure you do it.
The bushings can be done by anyone, but a Mini specialist would have a far easier time. Way can keep his prices down because he can probably knock those out in an hour.
Not a very good start to your Mini ownership when your first bill is $1500 for only 3 relatively minor parts. I hope you can find a good place to have the work done. It's your 3rd car so maybe it's worth the pain in the *** trip to Helix every once in a while. They are good cars but do require more maintenance than your average Honda.
You don't necessarily need a Mini shop though. Any mechanic or shop can do the strut mount. Any shop can also do the thermostat but my only concern would be about them bleeding the air out correctly. Sometimes it takes a little work to get it all out, it's not hard you just have to make sure you do it.
The bushings can be done by anyone, but a Mini specialist would have a far easier time. Way can keep his prices down because he can probably knock those out in an hour.
Not a very good start to your Mini ownership when your first bill is $1500 for only 3 relatively minor parts. I hope you can find a good place to have the work done. It's your 3rd car so maybe it's worth the pain in the *** trip to Helix every once in a while. They are good cars but do require more maintenance than your average Honda.
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#8
10-14-2016, 06:42 AM
Helix used to be a part of this forum, not sure why they are gone now but from what I've read over the last few years they sounded like a very qualified Mini shop.
You don't necessarily need a Mini shop though. Any mechanic or shop can do the strut mount. Any shop can also do the thermostat but my only concern would be about them bleeding the air out correctly. Sometimes it takes a little work to get it all out, it's not hard you just have to make sure you do it.
The bushings can be done by anyone, but a Mini specialist would have a far easier time. Way can keep his prices down because he can probably knock those out in an hour.
Not a very good start to your Mini ownership when your first bill is $1500 for only 3 relatively minor parts. I hope you can find a good place to have the work done. It's your 3rd car so maybe it's worth the pain in the *** trip to Helix every once in a while. They are good cars but do require more maintenance than your average Honda.
You don't necessarily need a Mini shop though. Any mechanic or shop can do the strut mount. Any shop can also do the thermostat but my only concern would be about them bleeding the air out correctly. Sometimes it takes a little work to get it all out, it's not hard you just have to make sure you do it.
The bushings can be done by anyone, but a Mini specialist would have a far easier time. Way can keep his prices down because he can probably knock those out in an hour.
Not a very good start to your Mini ownership when your first bill is $1500 for only 3 relatively minor parts. I hope you can find a good place to have the work done. It's your 3rd car so maybe it's worth the pain in the *** trip to Helix every once in a while. They are good cars but do require more maintenance than your average Honda.
Yeah, you're correct about the $1500 parting gift by taking possession of the car. Bimmerworks sent me an email and will get me a quote soon. Hopefully it will be much less.
I'm used to maintenance/repairs, but just not having to pay for it! LOL
I've been a BMW fanboy for decades and recently acquired my first Jag
#9
10-14-2016, 08:02 AM
#10
10-14-2016, 08:11 AM
I just realized I never posted up pics of my new toy in this Thread; although I did in another Thread. But I'll some here too! lol
#13
10-14-2016, 10:59 AM
As noted, it's not just the parts...
DO NOT USE OEM bushings....they are crap rubber...get the urethane ones....cheaper, and good for the life if the car, and you will NOT likly be able to tell the difference....maybe a slight increase in NVH on groved concrete, but little else.
Most shops bill book....so if they have about half the labor rate...common in the north east....dealers are about $180-200, Indy shops 90-120$, that's the main difference....the dealers typically sell parts at about a 20% discount, maybe a bit more to mist shops...some take the difference as a mark-up...
So for some items, the difference will be only labor ..
The biggest savings are typically things like clutches, where the parts are available without the dealer mark-up, and the job is 80% labor.
DO NOT USE OEM bushings....they are crap rubber...get the urethane ones....cheaper, and good for the life if the car, and you will NOT likly be able to tell the difference....maybe a slight increase in NVH on groved concrete, but little else.
Most shops bill book....so if they have about half the labor rate...common in the north east....dealers are about $180-200, Indy shops 90-120$, that's the main difference....the dealers typically sell parts at about a 20% discount, maybe a bit more to mist shops...some take the difference as a mark-up...
So for some items, the difference will be only labor ..
The biggest savings are typically things like clutches, where the parts are available without the dealer mark-up, and the job is 80% labor.
#14
10-14-2016, 11:06 AM
As noted, it's not just the parts...
DO NOT USE OEM bushings....they are crap rubber...get the urethane ones....cheaper, and good for the life if the car, and you will NOT likly be able to tell the difference....maybe a slight increase in NVH on groved concrete, but little else.
Most shops bill book....so if they have about half the labor rate...common in the north east....dealers are about $180-200, Indy shops 90-120$, that's the main difference....the dealers typically sell parts at about a 20% discount, maybe a bit more to mist shops...some take the difference as a mark-up...
So for some items, the difference will be only labor ..
The biggest savings are typically things like clutches, where the parts are available without the dealer mark-up, and the job is 80% labor.
DO NOT USE OEM bushings....they are crap rubber...get the urethane ones....cheaper, and good for the life if the car, and you will NOT likly be able to tell the difference....maybe a slight increase in NVH on groved concrete, but little else.
Most shops bill book....so if they have about half the labor rate...common in the north east....dealers are about $180-200, Indy shops 90-120$, that's the main difference....the dealers typically sell parts at about a 20% discount, maybe a bit more to mist shops...some take the difference as a mark-up...
So for some items, the difference will be only labor ..
The biggest savings are typically things like clutches, where the parts are available without the dealer mark-up, and the job is 80% labor.
Yeah, the relatively close mini dealer doesn't have a problem installing the powerflex (from what I've been told they are a pretty descent aftermarket-friendly dealer--we shall see), but just can't warranty the item.
#15
10-14-2016, 11:08 AM
As noted, it's not just the parts...
DO NOT USE OEM bushings....they are crap rubber...get the urethane ones....cheaper, and good for the life if the car, and you will NOT likly be able to tell the difference....maybe a slight increase in NVH on groved concrete, but little else.
Most shops bill book....so if they have about half the labor rate...common in the north east....dealers are about $180-200, Indy shops 90-120$, that's the main difference....the dealers typically sell parts at about a 20% discount, maybe a bit more to mist shops...some take the difference as a mark-up...
So for some items, the difference will be only labor ..
The biggest savings are typically things like clutches, where the parts are available without the dealer mark-up, and the job is 80% labor.
DO NOT USE OEM bushings....they are crap rubber...get the urethane ones....cheaper, and good for the life if the car, and you will NOT likly be able to tell the difference....maybe a slight increase in NVH on groved concrete, but little else.
Most shops bill book....so if they have about half the labor rate...common in the north east....dealers are about $180-200, Indy shops 90-120$, that's the main difference....the dealers typically sell parts at about a 20% discount, maybe a bit more to mist shops...some take the difference as a mark-up...
So for some items, the difference will be only labor ..
The biggest savings are typically things like clutches, where the parts are available without the dealer mark-up, and the job is 80% labor.
Thanks
#16
10-14-2016, 11:35 AM
I think I recall seeing this car up on Cars.com - seller had it up there for a while. Great looking car .. I even contemplated buying it and having it shipped to Seattle.
I just picked up a 2004 JCW - 84k miles but very well taken care of by the previous owner. PPI at Seattle Mini showed up very little that needed to be done, except for the rear sway bar bushings and the valve cover gasket - I was absolutely delighted as the two previous cars I'd had PPI's done on (both 06's) needed 3 to 4 grands worth of repairs.
Honestly, if I were you I would be very happy with a car in that condition, with low miles, and it only needing $1,500 worth of repairs.
Greg
I just picked up a 2004 JCW - 84k miles but very well taken care of by the previous owner. PPI at Seattle Mini showed up very little that needed to be done, except for the rear sway bar bushings and the valve cover gasket - I was absolutely delighted as the two previous cars I'd had PPI's done on (both 06's) needed 3 to 4 grands worth of repairs.
Honestly, if I were you I would be very happy with a car in that condition, with low miles, and it only needing $1,500 worth of repairs.
Greg
#17
10-14-2016, 11:38 AM
I think I recall seeing this car up on Cars.com - seller had it up there for a while. Great looking car .. I even contemplated buying it and having it shipped to Seattle.
I just picked up a 2004 JCW - 84k miles but very well taken care of by the previous owner. PPI at Seattle Mini showed up very little that needed to be done, except for the rear sway bar bushings and the valve cover gasket - I was absolutely delighted as the two previous cars I'd had PPI's done on (both 06's) needed 3 to 4 grands worth of repairs.
Honestly, if I were you I would be very happy with a car in that condition, with low miles, and it only needing $1,500 worth of repairs.
Greg
I just picked up a 2004 JCW - 84k miles but very well taken care of by the previous owner. PPI at Seattle Mini showed up very little that needed to be done, except for the rear sway bar bushings and the valve cover gasket - I was absolutely delighted as the two previous cars I'd had PPI's done on (both 06's) needed 3 to 4 grands worth of repairs.
Honestly, if I were you I would be very happy with a car in that condition, with low miles, and it only needing $1,500 worth of repairs.
Greg
#18
10-14-2016, 11:53 AM
http://www.detroittuned.com/powerfle...ushings-gen-1/
#19
10-14-2016, 12:46 PM
The above power flex ones.... usually the "street" is good for 99% of folks...many MINI centric shops keep them in stock....
Another thing to check than can be missed....the hydraulic engine mount....it's basically a oil filled rubber ball with a bolt sticking out in a can.... passangerside, near the belt....they run about $100 and fail pretty regularly....if missed too long, can cause excess stress on the tranny mount, and clutch/tranny, not to mention the feel...the clunk, etc.
Another thing to check than can be missed....the hydraulic engine mount....it's basically a oil filled rubber ball with a bolt sticking out in a can.... passangerside, near the belt....they run about $100 and fail pretty regularly....if missed too long, can cause excess stress on the tranny mount, and clutch/tranny, not to mention the feel...the clunk, etc.
#20
10-14-2016, 01:53 PM
6th Gear
A super find!
Something you should look in to replacing is the coolant expansion tank with an aluminum one. Age, heat and pressure will contribute to those plastic ones separating at the seam eventually. I replaced mine not long ago and sleep a lot more soundly. They are available on ebay and are an easy job to do. Use the flat of a screw driver to slide the hoses off the posts and use a little coolant to lube them to help slide on to the new posts. The OEM cap fits perfectly so save it. You will need someone with small hands to get the bottom mount bolted down. Some good beer is a fine inducement.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/02-06-MINI-C...-/281301304732
Something you should look in to replacing is the coolant expansion tank with an aluminum one. Age, heat and pressure will contribute to those plastic ones separating at the seam eventually. I replaced mine not long ago and sleep a lot more soundly. They are available on ebay and are an easy job to do. Use the flat of a screw driver to slide the hoses off the posts and use a little coolant to lube them to help slide on to the new posts. The OEM cap fits perfectly so save it. You will need someone with small hands to get the bottom mount bolted down. Some good beer is a fine inducement.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/02-06-MINI-C...-/281301304732
#21
10-14-2016, 02:09 PM
Thanks guys for all the advice
I just received an email from Helix Motorsports and they quoted me $1200 for the 3 jobs, not including State inspection.
I'm pretty happy I decided to go with Ottos Mini for the same price, with State inspection/emissions, loaner, and not having to deal with Philly for the same $1200 price
I just received an email from Helix Motorsports and they quoted me $1200 for the 3 jobs, not including State inspection.
I'm pretty happy I decided to go with Ottos Mini for the same price, with State inspection/emissions, loaner, and not having to deal with Philly for the same $1200 price
#22
10-14-2016, 09:08 PM
#23
10-15-2016, 02:13 AM
I guess I shouldn't second-guess myself about this purchase. Seems like it's a pretty rare fine for the over condition. Cosmetically, the only issues I need to address are the numerous paint chips on the front (common I've read) and some of the wheels have quite a bit of rash.
Speaking of paint, unfortunately there are two areas on the bonnet where the clear coat is failing. One the size of a quarter and the other about the size of a pea. I'm guessing there really isn't anything I could do myself to try and remedy the situation other than bringing it to a quality detailer/paint shop and having them sand down the entire bonnet and respray--which I would want to avoid at all cost--at least for now.
Anyone have any other recommendations on what I could do to address those two failing clear coat areas? Should I avoid the areas for example when hand polishing? Don't want to create a larger area by flaking more clear off.
#24
10-15-2016, 06:27 AM
6th Gear
#25
10-15-2016, 06:35 AM
My plan was a good wash, clay, wash again, Poor Boy's Black Hole (polish to reduce the webbing), and finish off with Poor Boy's EX-P (sealant). Everything by hand.
Are you saying I shouldn't even touch my clear coat peeling areas with the clay and wax?