I had custom wheel spacer hub centering rings made to hold the wheel perfect, its just like putting a factory tire on the factory hub, it lock on very nice!!

 

I talked to Schooner2 on the phone yesterday to get a little more detail on the harmonic sound, wheel shake, etc. We're having the exact same problem. I've tried everything except for replacing the struts or switching to coilovers.
Right now we have: Ireland Engineering front rotor conversion with Mintex M1144 pads & Cryo-Powerslots in the rear with Mintex Redbox pads. Rims & tires= 17" Momo X1's w/ BF Goodrich 215/45/17 KDW2's w/ hubcentric rings & super low-profile wheel weights (for the front) to get around the tight caliper clearance. H-Sport suspension.
In addition to Schooner2's issues, it seems like my steering and suspension is sloppy. My front end seems to squat down and away when I'm going around a corner & turning doesn't seem as crisp as it used to be. If y'all can chime in to give me ideas, I'd really appreciate it. Let me know if swapping struts is a good idea, switching to coilovers, what kinds are the best for daily drivability, cost, etc. Thanks!

 

Guys;

I don't mind chining in here to say this is one of my kits Nathan is working on.

From the first conversation it took me directly to the previous situation that Greg had. Identical sysmptoms.

Nathan, as did Greg, sent me back all the parts for review. The rotors were measured via a digital measuring platform for both flatness and parallelism. Both were under .003", however one had a tad more eliptical run out than I'd like and my thoughts were perhaps that it was a rotational shaking or vibration. This rotor AND hat was replaced.

I also replace the BP10 pads from the order to go back with the HPS of other older orders. Just in case there proved issues with the BP10. One kit was slotted, the other drilled as well so there my intent was to eliminate as many variables as I could. In the interest of good customer relations I wanted to be certain I'd covered all the bases. Keep in mind this same rotor and pad combo are used on many other kits so if it were common to their mating I'd hear about it for sure.

We discussed the pad burnish idea as well. I promise you I have pads with far more bite than Hawk Blue as well! I opted out of that as I did not feel this was really the issue. The take off rotor is still here in the shop and I feel it's still a runable part with low miles, as are the BP10 pads. At some point I might offer it up on a deep discount later after further review. I simply doubt it's a 'bad' part.

All the parts were re installed as before. It was not however until I read the original post that I became aware of the common strut on both cars. When I read of the same issue on another, and now another...it takes me back to what we discovered early on with the first car.

 

I am convinced that Todd it right, I wasnt going to drop names, but sence todd has said it, it is a wilwood kit, but I dont think its the brakes, the car is going in tomarrow for new struts, I will post the results tomarrow when I get my car back should be around lunch time. I have to say that Todds customer service thought this whole process has be above and beyong the call of duty, and for that I thank you very much!! Thanks again Todd!! should be to the bottom of this tomarrow I hope!!

 

OKay so the verdict is in, I just wasted money on new struts and I still have brakes that dont work,!! any other bright Ideas!! MY suspension has been gone throught and new struts installed and there is no change!!!

 

Dude, I'm getting ready to hook up some Bilstein coilovers to fix my issues. I talked my old lady into giving me an early X-mas present. But, I don't want to spend the money if I'm still going to have a "Bedknobs & Broomsticks" suspension system. (Bonus if y'all remember what I'm talking about.)

 

>> Fracky,

>> I would save your money at this time. The Bilsteins are excellant and I had thought about them too and maybe some day take the springs off and go with Coil Overs. I have H-Sports and I can tell you they are not causing any problems on my car regardless of what you may read. My friend Schooner can atest to this as he had new Sturts installed today and the old ones showed no sign of being Shot and the new ones did not make any difference with the problem.

>> Today I spoke with one of the leading Mini Turners and Techs in the field and the H-sport Springs do not cause primature ware or brakage to the Struts. It is simply not true.

MINIMAX 1

 

Soooo....like why does our suspension feel like we're riding on a box spring from the 50's? Thanks for the input. :smile:

 

>> I wish I had the answer to your question. But what I do believe from all of the information I have picked up from the Techs I spoke to, and beleive me they are all leaders in the industry the H-sport Springs are not causing the problems that are being discussed on this board form Schooners origenal Post. This is a very interesting situation and I hope you guys can find the problem and get it fixed. :smile:


MINIMAX 1

 

In helping to resolve this issue for the customer, the next step will be to try the pad cleaning method mentioned above. My first thougts on this were 'pad transfer' problems from the begining. However with the rotor sanding and re bedding work performed and the slight deviation measured on one of the rotors returned I opted to replace that one and the pads. In looking at the rotor I retained is has not been worked very hard- no disrespect but only the zinc has begun to burn off it. When a rotor is really seasoned hard it will go from the zinc to a dull silver to bronze, to a mild blue and ultimately a near mirro finish. The rotor here still has the hatch markings showing thus very little wear.

After hearing of the shock/spring combo the former problem mentioned by onasled came back loud and clear. To that end I felt this may be the sourse of the problem now.

After his efforts to replace the suspect strut proved no results we are left with two possibilities; pad transfer or the other rotor. We're out of parts.

We discussed the option of having the original rotor on the car cut. However due to the problems with interrupted cutting on a drilled/slotted rotor I felt this is only going to lead to the potential for more problems and perhaps bring a new one into the mix. If it is pad then it will be cleaned up of course but we'd be left with a new rotor with material removed for no real reason.

The pad wipe plan of Poly A pads should be just short of metal on metal. They massive Cf of this pad- upwards of .68 should leave metal deposits on the wheel when used in cold conditions for short period of time. Perhaps this pad will truly put both a heat cycle and cleaning into the rotor.

Lastly if the problem persists post Poly A, then I will replace the second original rotor. Beyond that I can offer no more input on this. We'll have done both rotors and the full set of pads.

Stay tuned as the Poly A should be in place on Friday late. If you live within about a 1/2m range you'll probably hear him coming....


* an example of the color changes can be found on both the MINI page with regard to the LF rotor (with nice looking red caliper) then compare that to the broze coloring coming from the bed in pic on the Mazda 6 page. I'm trying to find that 'blueing' pic I took over a year ago...if anyone knows let me know.

 

>> Thanks Todd for helping Schooner. He is a good friend of mine and has really had a time with the problems he has talked to you about.

>> Hope you and he can get the situation solved.

>> MINIMAX 1

 

OKay here is an update kind of, I now have in my hands a set of pads that will grind off any pad transfer and any crap that could be on the rotor, thanks to Todd at TCE for sending them to me. I will post the results no later that sat, I am not sure I will have time tonight to do it but will work on them tomarrow. I am keeping my fingers crossed!!

 

where did the replacement struts come from?

 

They were brand new factory struts, installed by Mini of Murray!

 

well I have installed the race pads, they have made the rotor look very nice and clean, but still not working!! The way things are going, looks like I am going to have a great set of very expensive brake kits that I will get to look at on the shelve in the garge!! Not exactly what I had in mind when I invested in the brakes!!

 

did you do the install yourself?

 

I did do the install myself, but they have been inspected by my mini mechanical and he said it all looked great to him!!

 

>> Schooner 2 did installed the Brake system and then had a very qualifid Tech checked his work and it was fine.

>> The problem is not his instullation it is something machanical with the car or the brake system itself.
>> Also he just had new Struts installed and the Tech went through the entire front end and all was up to par.

>> MINIMAX 1

 

We did a run out test on the rotors today and the passenger side has 3000 of and inch run out and the driver side has 2500 of run out, what are acceptable run out? as you spin the wheel in the air you can here the rotor hit and then not hit the brake pads like they are not running true?? So when is it time to give up on these??

 

.003 inch of runout is about the limit. But, you should be feeling some pulsating at the brake pedal.
Rotor runout can be variations of rotor thickness, buildup of rust/corrosion at the interface of the rotor and hub, and uneven torque on the lug bolts/nuts.

Maybe, check your tires for a flat spot.

 

I suggest that you remove the one screw that holds the rotor and then torque the wheel to about 85 ft/lb making sure that there is no more rubbing as you spin the wheel freely. I have had this happen after changing rotors where the rotor is not properly seated before being torqued. There should be even pressure on the rotor, if you can hear it stick as you turn it you need to try and re-seat it properly.

 

I'm in Chicago so trying to catch up on things here.

The .0025-.003 should prove within acceptable range for these rotors. Don't recall which it was but one of them was what I measured here as well.

The fit of the Poly A pads will clear/cut/grind/de glaze about anything out there and should make easy work of a couple thou of potential pad build up. Leaving them in throughout the weekend and running them hard should produce some wear on things also. They like heat. Lots of it.

There is no hat retaining screw so that rules out this suggestion. I am however coming back to these wheel spacer perhaps. Is there any chance we have some out of round aspect to these spacers? They do not fit onto the hubs correctly? They shift around some? I'm running out of ideas as quickly as others. As promised; I'll replace the one other rotor on this kit in the coming week or so but I strongly now believe the same results are going to be had after that one.

 

The rotor with the most run out is the brand new passenger side rotor that has 3000 of an inch run out. the question I have is, will the 'A' pad cut out that 3000 of an inch if used properly? and if so, how is properly? as far as the wheel spacer are concerd! there were made on a cnc machine and have been calibrate and have even better fittment than the metal hub centering rings that one can buy from dicount tire! but these have the wheel spacer built into them! there is no run out in these spacer!

 

Hmmmmm..... These are all things that I went through myself. I was also determind that it was the BBK kit. Then I replaced my struts as I said and have never had another problem.

Have you driven the car with your original wheel set, no spacers.?
How did you check for trueness on the rotors? On the car or on a lathe?
Did you check the bushings in the strut top mount plate?

As Micky said, you should be feeling brack peddle pulsing if the rotors where the issue I believe. I did.

 

I have full trust in my mini dealers mechaines to have the ability to replace and install new struts! there is nothing wrong with the suspesion, we checked the run out while bolted up to the cars hub as if it was being used! how come when I spin the rotors around on the car that I hear the rotor making contact with the brake pads only 25 % of the rotor that tells me there is a high spot! i have talked to several mini owners that have had there rotors replaced because there were warped, they said the was never any pulse in the brake pedal, the mini mechanice also said you probly would not sence any pulse in the brake pedal!