Anti-haters, love you boyz

 

The track rats though the whole idea sucks, as you can get better traction from running the wider tire on the wider rim. Sure you can get better contact patch by running a wider than stock tire on a much wider than stock rim, but most that do this run very high tire pressures, which reduces contact patch. A very wide wheel increases unsprung weight, and that reduces effective traction... It goes on and on and on.

What I do find interesting is that this was a technique to save money for rear drive cars that slide, and is being used as a fashion statement for front drivers who's claim to fame is NOT sliding.

Just like fashion...... Morphs itself to absurdity!

Matt

 

well yes...these definitely weigh alot....they are multi-piece wheels too right? Certainly not about weight savings or track performance. Anyone i know running stretched tires have lightweight non-stretched track tires and rims for when the go to track days. This is never and will never be a performance thing.

The price thing....pretty negligible. Chris bought tires that are the same price as any tire that people are running on 17x7's.....and have you checked the price of those rims . Certainly not about being cheap.

And the FWD call it fashion because it looks good...but most of it is actually so they can lower their cars even more while mainting a wider track for a little poke. The stretched tires allow them to lower the car with less chance of rubbing that outter edge. Go ask on VWVortex....some people have some great proof and pictures of how much it helps to cure rubbing while being able to maintain a slammed ride height (yes, just for looks).

Where is the absurdity? I'm still missing it unless you are just looking for strict performance....in which case, realize that these are street tires, performance can be left to their track tires and rims (one shouldnt be doing any high-performance driving on the street anyways)

And if its "absurd" to be a little more extreme than usual....then you could say the same about performance....300+hp is pretty extreme for a MINI You cant go calling that absurd too, that would just ruin the fun .

 

Hahah its all for you

 

is that Joker on the very left side?

 

yep, standin' right next to U
..surprised u dont remember ScuderiaMini!?

 

actually i am the one in the middle

 

The reasons for stretching the tires started as a way to decrease traction and or save money so that low HP rear wheel drive cars could drift.

It has now morphed into a fashion statement where expensive tires and wheels are used to create a look that has less safety than an appropriately configured tire and wheel combination. And is has gone to a fashion statement that is completely divorced from the original reasons that the technique was created in the first place!

You may trade not rubbing on a slammed car (another fashion statement that doesn't consider suspension geometry or travel), but you sure expose the rims of the wheels to much increased risk. I pretty much laugh when I see the hydrolic suspension set ups that raise a car for driving, and slam it for parking, because it's so low that it can't be driven on the street!

Chris's expendatures on expensive wheel and tires are a case in point. Early drifters would dumpster dive, use used tires off of friends cars, or buy cheaper rubber to save $, as drifting just doesn't lend itself to long tread wear. But it's interesting to note that the professional drift circuit is going back to real tire/wheel dynamics as it evolves from a free for all, to a more developed sport.

I'll admit that there is some asthetic decisions here. I, for one, think it's just dumb to trade safety for looks. And no matter what you say about it being better than stock (it may or may not, depending on configuration) is sure is worse than in could be.

But then again, if people want to do it, I won't stop them. I'll admit that I'm a "function dictates form" kind of guy. You want a car that LOOKS like it can handle, set up the suspension so that it handles, and guess what? It looks like it can handle. You set up a car to just look like it handles, and it usually doesn't handle as well as it could.

When I first came across this thread, I thought, gee, that's stupid! (I also used to be in a neighborhood where sever stretch of skinny tires on large sedans and Pick-Ups was the fashion statement, with crappy roads to boot! Talk about propensity for rim dents!). But I thought, well, there might be something to this, and started reading. What I found out was that the origins of this technique were based in some real stuff for specific purpose. And now it persists, and the specific purpose is lost.

Whatever, if you like it do it! But the car won't corner as well as it could. And front drivers aren't drift cars. Nothing will change these last two statements.

Matt

 

your post=Reader's Digest

I always get lost trying to finish them, can you keep them a little shorter please

 

I will just agree to disagree with you on this one. Form and function are on the same level for me.

I wont be running stretched tires anytime soon...but disagree with some of the negative remarks made in this thread.


And since we brought quotes into this

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.” -Paulo Coelho

"Failure is taking the path that everyone else does, success is making your own path."

" Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. "
Cecil Beaton

 

Great post that last one. I agree.

 

Plain and simple . . .It's his car and he can do what he wants to it. That should be respected. It is OK to disagree, but at least take the time to understand what the intent is. Props to Dr. Obnxs for taking the time to look into how stretching came about. I personally would not do it to my car, but I also would not slam someone else for their decision.

 

Who cares if its divorced from what it originally was? You speak of evolution later in this post.....and that is exactly what this is. Is it absurd for one thing to evolve into something else?

The Mini Cooper started out as an economical way to save money while mainting enough room for 4 people....and it is now being built as a performance driven and aesthetically pleasing car. Is it absurd that it is no longer just about what it used to be?

Yes, this is true. And its true that having 17s on a MINI further exposes the rims to damage...many people do that here. So what? Just dont run your car into a curb, and you will be good.

I'm gonna have to be honest and say that i dont really care what you laugh about. If i were to laugh at elephants, i certainly hope it wouldnt stop you from liking elephants yourself.

Lots of current pro drifters still run expensive sponsor-paid-for STRETCHED tires, i dont get what point you are trying to make.

Ok...so you dont like how it looks....thats one of the facts that has been presented. People can take that how they may.

Running springs instead of coils "sure is worse than it could be" too....who cares. For more in terms of "worse than it could be"...see below.

This isnt about looking like it can handle....its just about looking good. And yes it cant handle as well as it could.....but still handles perfectly under the conditions that it is driven in (street). You will never be able to see what your car's limits are until you track it. So if someone wants just a street car, they will never even know what their car "could" do....so not handling as well as it could means nothing.

Your car cant perform as well as it could as long as your AC is installed(for weight reasons)....but i dont see you guys removing that.

No, the specific purpose isn't lost. It has just changed from what it originally was. It used to be about drifting, its now about aesthetics.

Of course the statements wont change but neither will these: "You don't drive to 10/10ths on the street, so the lack of a little handling wont be noticed" and "Euro style isnt concerned with drifting, so who cares if fronts cant drift, the stretch still looks good."

 

I really do not understand the level of intolarance at NAM lately. It feels like there is a certain path of mods that every MC/MCS owner should follow, other than that is POS. To each his own, whatever makes that person happy. There is a lot of attention seekers here, I tell you that.

There is a difference between saying "Not to my taste, but it is different" and bashing a guy. I see pathetic MINIs here, and a lot of them, but never put anybody down for their tastes. This place is turning to a Dodge Neon forum unfortunately. Hopefully we get the new 07s ASAP, so ppl get busy instead of poking others.

 

I guess I pissed some people off. For those that are inflamed, look to the parts of my post that say "If you want to, do it" and also those that admit "I'm a form follows function guy".

I'll add to that creating a "look" isn't high on my priority list either!

But to tell the truth, before I can to any descition, I actually looked into the history, origins and PURPOSE of this type of mod. So I gathered some information before coming to my conclusions (yes, MY, not universal truths here!) And for those of you how claim intolerance on these boards. The very first post, from so long ago, did solicit OPINIONS! Not just positive ones. So as opposed to saying intolerant, why don't you all congratulate the negative, and positive, posters for actually taking the time to respond to a request for, guess what, RESPONSES!

In no way did I say that one shouldn't or should do crap like this. What I do point out is the morphing from something with a functional purpose, to something that is anti-functional for an aesthetic, TO ME, this makes no sense. But it's not my car, so stretch away! Ding rims, degrade handling, use tires in undesigned configurations, get rid of suspension travel, scrape on speed bumps, scrape on driveways, loose traction on rough surfaces, HAVE AT IT! It's your car, or the aesthetic you like, so who gives a ratsass whether or not everyone agrees?

But if one wants a thread where all that is said is "gee, that's the best thing ever", post in threads that request only good comments. Far as I can tell, this one wasn't started under that condition.

Matt

 

NO!

That better?

Matt

 

I would never want an all positive thread....but if you are gonna be negative give reasons (as you have done)....The only problem that i had was that people were saying "that is stupid, because i dont like it" Things like that dont make sense.

Saying something like "I dont like that because i think it disturbs the flow of the car" or "I dont like it because i prefer _______ because it ___________" is better in my opinion.

 

To despell a few myths:

https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

Keep in mind, this is a racing environment, not a public road.
Ironically, this argument works for both the performance and safety minded.

A couple BIG notes:

1)Race cars generate a much greater load on tires vs. street driving. Speeds, banking, bumps, potholes, and rumble strips are different in both situations.

2) This is a 285/30/18 race tire. Look closely at those numbers. Notice there is no mention of rim width. I seriously doubt it was an 8in rim.

My Opinion:
Yeah, there is a safety issue involved in extreme cases. But, I doubt any of us would mount something this extreme anyway. Note 2nd to last paragraph and no mention of specific conditions. What, is it rainy..? C-mon now. I believe an enthusiast would have no problems abnormal to a "correctly sized" application, as long as it is stretched in moderation, and properly inflated for the application. Aesthetically, stretch away. This forum could benefit from real world experience (in contrast to MTV).

 

 

thanks buddy

dont know about the wheels....but the car is hot!

 

Whatever reason some of you guys are throwing out as to why people stretch tires is crap. The only reason to stretch a tire is to fit wide wheels under relatively stock fenders and to have a decent ride height with it. The staggered look is just that, a look. Honestly I think it will look fantastic and hope you go that route so I can see how good it looks. If it's not 17x7 SSR's we lose our minds. All my opinion of course.


-oh and 205's on a 9" wheel is not extreme stretch, now 195 is a different story.

 

bwhahahahahahaha so true

 

x3

a little more visual support

 

I just went on a test drive in a new gti....

my opinion...the car seems really BIG...and tall..like a monster truck :P

I think I am too used to the mini...

anyway..how do you like the DSG? I drove a 6-speed but the sales guy would not shut up about the DSG....

 

pm sent