Tires, Wheels, & Brakes Discussion about wheels, tires, and brakes for the new MINI.
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Optimal tire wheel combo for great handling

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Old Nov 2, 2013 | 05:46 AM
  #26  
cristo's Avatar
cristo
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From: York, Pennsylvania
I currently have 15# SSR GT-1 16x7 wheels and 19# 205/50/16 Conti DW tires.
Great light strong and grippy combo. Too bad that wheel is long ago discontinued.
The Enkei Racing PF01 would be a great current choice. Stronger than a conventional
cast wheel, light, and available in 43 mm offset at 14# in 16x7 (15.6#, 45mm offset in 17x7)
and under $250 each.
 

Last edited by cristo; Nov 2, 2013 at 05:52 AM.
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Old Nov 2, 2013 | 10:40 AM
  #27  
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minihune
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From: Mililani, Hawaii
Originally Posted by CooperDaddy
Hey everyone,
I'm new to the world of Mini and I'm having lots of fun already. I'm so glad my '08 Mini Cooper S came with stock 16" wheels and so-so all season tires. It makes it easier to justify the upgrade. I've read many threads already but haven't found the answer I'm looking for. My current stock wheels and Yokohama YK580 195/55R-16 set up weigh 40 lbs. The lowest weight I can see is 33lb which would be pretty dramatically better. With a stock (not Sport suspension) how will such a change in unsprung weight and tire aspect ratio affect the harshness of the ride. I'm pretty sure I'll be OK with it, but I welcome the input.

I'm planning:
1) A light, 16 or 17x7 wheel - I really like the white Alleggerita HLT, though at $360 a piece on Tirerack, I'm doing some soul searching. The 17x7 wheel only weighs 14lbs!
2) I'm pretty sure I'd like to go 1~2% smaller overall tire diameter to minimize weight and polar moment of inertia and gain effective, more favorable gear ratio. I don't mind the speedo error
3) I'm not sure the width I want to go with. Obviously a wider tire will translate to more mass and inertia. How much width is needed to maximize performance? I like to drive aggressively on windy, back country roads. I'm thinking about 215/40R-17 or 225/45R-16, but tire options are really limited. I'm also considering going with the stock 205/45R-17 - Continental DW (19lbs) or Michelin Pilot Super Sports (20lbs) seem great, but I'm wondering if 205mm is wide enough.

I think i'd like the look of the wider tire, but I think function is more important than form so I'm really on the fence here. Any advice out there? Bring it on. Thanks.
Anyone in the same situation would do better to back up a bit. (I know the OP has already picked his tires and wheels)

I'm, glad that you're thinking about a tire AND wheel combo rather than just one or the other. Matching them together and with respect to your suspension, your driving style, your needs for how you use your MINI, your weather conditions and your budget is the bigger picture you need to determine for yourself.

That's why when you searched for your wheel tire combo for handling question you didn't really get a good answer. It's because it will vary with those factors I mentioned.

First you need to determine a few things-
What is your overall budget?, and specifically, how much are you willing to pay for lighter wheels and grippy tires.
Good handling is relative to the driving skills of the owner, you mean for street use or you want to do autocrossing (maybe, you never know once you get the taste of grippy tires), or high performance driving events, or driving school- all of which serve to make good use of handling.
What is your weather like?- do you need a summer tire or an all season one due to cold temperatures and some snow, or do you have winter tires stored.
Besides handling, what else do you care about? Cost, treadwear, ride noise and comfort, mpg,looks?
Have you thought about changing your stock suspension to something else? No chance? No budget? No need? Anytime I hear someone wants to get great handling in a MINI the first thing I think about is upgrade the suspension not just buy wheels and tires, in fact it's really only half an upgrade to do one or the other.
If there is a suspension upgrade for you in the future, think about what that might be even if it is down the road. Nothing is worse than choosing a 215/45-17 tire that you really like and then drop the suspension so that you get rubbing. Better to have choosen the same tire in 205/45-17 and not rub.
How are your roads, are they smooth as glass or full of potholes and could easily damage low profile tires and light weight rims?
That's enough to get you started for now. please reply so that we can narrow down your choices.

In general, great handling has to do with many specific factors about the wheel, the tire, it's tread compound, thread design, sidewall construction and stiffness, not just tread profile (which is a factor). No tire will do everything you ask of it so prioritizing your needs is important.

Depending on your taste in wheel design, you can generally find a less costly 16" wheel with a decent weight. Certainly you can find great looking 14 lbs 17x7" wheels which will perform well but cost will be higher and those wheels will likely be stronger (hopefully less prone to damage from road use).

205mm wide tires seem to be a good starting point for either 16" or 17" wheels. The wider the tires the more rubber could be used for traction but the contact patch shape will change a little. It's important to match the wheel width with the tire width, a 7" wide rim is OK for both 205 and 215mm wide tires. Width alone is not sufficient to tell if handling will be good or not.

Tire design, materials use, rubber compound, tread design are all factors to making a tire that handles well. Conti DW was mentioned, a great street tire for some, a little soft in the sidewalls for others- this leads to a little flex and takes away from crisp handling.

Tire diameter is a factor but not as important as long as you stay in the 23.9 to 24.7" range with stock suspension. This assumes you only do street driving. If you do choose a taller tire, you can always accelerate in a lower gear for longer before shifting. There can be some speedo and odometer error but it's small if you stay in that range I mentioned. Although in general the taller tire may weigh more, it may also depend on which tire you choose, some in general weigh less.

Weight is important but not something you need to go nuts over. Yes, a 6-7 lbs per corner (wheel/tire combo) drop in weight will help with responsiveness, lead to better shorter breaking and faster acceleration. But it doesn't help as much once you reach constant speed and it won't help as much if you don't put on tires that are grippy and stop you well. You might even have to trade off one for the other, one tire being very grippy but weight 1-2 lbs more is usually worth it vs a less grippy but light tire. Think TRACTION and how to get more of it and you will enhance handling.
Most of all if you care about performance, don't get wheels and tires that are heavier, unless you just care about looks.

About the Michelin Pilot Super Sport- if you can afford it, and 205/45-17 costs more than 215/45-17, if you can use a summer tire and not need an All Season tire, then it's pretty hard to beat for daily street driving with great handling and comfort. Unfortunately it does not come in sizes less than 17".

But what if you need an All Season tire? Try searching for Ultra High Performance All Season tires, you can find some that are quite good for street use, will last longer than some summer tires, and allow you not to have to change tires for the winter if you live in a area which has only light snow.

So what else is there? Much much more, for example the alignment you have for your suspension can be helpful for responsive handling. Front toe setting can be adjusted to zero toe from OEM slight toe in. This allows your front wheels to turn a little quicker to steering input. It has nothing to do with your tires and wheels but it is a part of your suspension tuning. So does that really matter, well if your current alignment is set to maximum toe in or if your front right and left toe settings are not equal then yes it matters. At the same time you don't really want to set toe to the other extreme such as slight toe out because it will tend to wear out your front tires quicker when driven on the street for daily driving. Those who track and autocross will use a little toe out to improve steering response in turns.

Yes, there is a lot to consider. But you asked. Above all, have fun shopping and consider giving Alex@tirerack.com an email or call if you need more info.
 

Last edited by minihune; Nov 2, 2013 at 10:50 AM.
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Old Nov 2, 2013 | 10:57 AM
  #28  
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piston
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6ul 949 15x10 in front 15x9 in backs covered with rs3 rubber.

It helps with turn in and has amazing mid aprx grip. I run this set up with kw v2s and 25 mm sway bar.


By far the best set up pre race slicks.

Call 949 racing and get the mini cooper s spec 6uls... theyre 12.3 pounds for the 15x10s. Do 15x9 in rears. Oh and they look great.

Jan from RMW uses them on his race car, ian stewart uses them on his race car and has set multiple records with that set up.

They also clear Rmw brakes or jcw r53 and all u need is a 15 mm spacer with no rubbing.

You will thank me later.
 
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Old Nov 10, 2013 | 09:01 PM
  #29  
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tremperj
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From: Greenville, SC
Originally Posted by piston
6ul 949 15x10 in front 15x9 in backs covered with rs3 rubber. It helps with turn in and has amazing mid aprx grip. I run this set up with kw v2s and 25 mm sway bar. By far the best set up pre race slicks. Call 949 racing and get the mini cooper s spec 6uls... theyre 12.3 pounds for the 15x10s. Do 15x9 in rears. Oh and they look great. Jan from RMW uses them on his race car, ian stewart uses them on his race car and has set multiple records with that set up. They also clear Rmw brakes or jcw r53 and all u need is a 15 mm spacer with no rubbing. You will thank me later.
They are, hands down, one of the most popular wheels in the Miata crowd.
 
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