assume the stock Mini has a brake bias of 65%/35% at rest (this should be about right, but I haven't measured. My car is 61% on the front wheels, and there's some front bias built in for safety). Now start looking at the increased piston size, number and effective pad diameter. What's the bias now with a 13" rotor BBK?

I did some work in Excel and the numbers are scary. Might as well just cap the rear brake lines completely!

Something to think about.....

Matt

 

Even though I have a BBK I am not necessarily promoting BBKs in this thread... just an upgrade.....pads....maybe rotors.... lines....fluid... etc.

Look, if you don't have a need don't spend the $....

 

No need to yell there SpiderX, we obviously have a differing oppinion, I'm ok with that. Your original post stated that upgrading brakes are requirement for spirited driving on the dragon- I feel that is a incorrect statement and that is why I posted. I still stand by that. If you are driving hard enough on street tires on a public road to roast OEM pads you need to get off of the street and take it to the track before you hurt someone.

As far as the 07 MCS and JCW brakes, I do not agree with your logic. Just becasue the 07 has them stock does not mean that pre 07 brakes are lacking. We all know that bling sells, and IMHO big brakes for street driving = bling.

You know, the 07 MCS has the battery up front, maybe I need to relocate my battery because the 07 did....

Respectfully,
Jason

 

I think all that SpiderX wanted to say is upgraded pads and rotors are a good thing. Many people who have been at the Dragon have had brake problems wether it's pads or fluid or whatever.

 

The dragon event is not normal street driving, it is a special case demanding course that happens to be a public road with speed limits.

It is not a high speed closed track like in Germany. So exercise ample caution for the safety of yourself and others you share the road with.

Given that reality, You do not "need" upgraded brakes to drive the dragon. Having upgrades to your brakes installed "would" allow for more braking performance potential and could add to safety and your confidence that your MINI is functioning at a very high level.

If you are driving the "speed limit" on the course at the dragon you will be fine and not need to upgrade your brakes in any way as long as your brakes are in good functional condition now- so check them.

If you are driving in a sprited way, exceeding the speed limits occasionally and testing the performance potential of the MINI while exercising good judgement and spacing from the cars around you or any stationary barrier on the course, then having better performing brakes would be worth the effort to upgrade.

The same condition exists at any driving event or track session. Having better working brakes allows for higher levels of performance but you as the driver need to be smart and use good judgement.

The newest MCS uses the better JCW brakes because MINI decided that upgrade was justified as a change from the past models (might be for added performance in balance with the new turbo engine, or for setting the MCS apart from other MINI models, or for making the MINI line attactive wihtout having to upgrade to another line of brakes like Brembo).

 

Well stated minihune.

 

I'm not trying to cause trouble here, I just feel that OEM brakes are plenty enough to allow for fun spirited motoring on the dragon and I would hate for someone with stock brakes to feel like they would be in for trouble if they tried to push their car on the dragon. The majority of people here seem to have a different outlook on that topic, and I am OK with that. If anyone (SpiderX included) wishes to have a friendly discussion about brakes at the dragon over a few cold beverages, be sure to look me up at Fontana.

I'm a nice guy...really!

Jason

 

Wish I could go. Have fun and not to many cold ones before going out on the Dragon!

 

I'm with you, Jason; I feel like an alternate public service announcement can be made in this thread: "Save your money, drive safely and well, and you'll have a great time!" I'm not trying to cause trouble, either. Just commenting on the original suggestion. All are free to assess their own situations individually.

To all who are going to the dragon - please stay off the gravel regardless of which brakes you choose to run (it's a looooooooooong way down in some spots).

mb

 

To clarify.....

A) you do not need to upgrade your brakes to have fun at the Dragon.

B) upgraded brakes allow you to hold your speed and brake later before the corners...... all under the speed limit

C) I am not advocating breaking the law

This whole thing started because Bahamabart was contemplating a few more mods and I asked about his brakes. The money he was planning on spending was high and I said for very little comparatively, that brakes would be my next mod especially if you are headed to the Dragon.

I thought I would share this view.... if you are spending money on mods to improve your Minis performance evaluating your brakes for a possible upgrade would be my advice...... especially if you are Dragon bound where brakes can be challenged..... again this is not neccesary for either fun or safety....

I should have posted this thread in this manner in the first place....

 

I thought the JCW brakes WERE made by another brake company with just the JCW logo slapped on them. I believe I read that when they first came out. Not Brembo, some other company?

 

I think SpiderX's intentions, judgement, and advice are ALL on the money here. I've driven the Dragon (as many have). I did it (for me) pretty aggressively with stock calipers, fluids and lines, though with Hawk ceramic pads, and had no issues up or down for one round trip. But I tend to do more engine braking and go a little lighter on the brakes than many. If you drive in a brake-heavy manner, the Dragon will test the endurance of your brakes like few other public roads will... especially when you're in a line of MINIs and are being "encouraged" by the guy ahead of you and the guy behind you to go "just a bit faster"... and if you're doing multiple back-to-back runs, heat happens...

I have also overheated the brakes on my Town and Country going down a somewhat twisty incline where I wasn't aware that I was riding the brakes and I definitely wasn't driving in a "spirited" manner, and I was in low gear - but had immediate 80% fade at one braking point that scared the daylights out of me. Much heavier vehicle, much crappier brakes (for the weight), but stuff happens... the first time you overheat your brakes and they they don't work when you expect them to will be the first time - by definition before that anyone would say "that's never happened to me..."

But in general, know your limits and stay within them. It's pretty tempting on the Dragon to test your own limits. I highly discourage that approach. Figure out what your (and your car's) limits are in a locale with more margin for error...

 

so now they can ditch the Mini only part.....

Matt

 

Agree with all of that, thanks for the clarification

mb

 

Bahamabart here - All SpiderX suggested to me was to consider upgrading my brake pads so I could drive spiritedly and safely at the same time. SpiderX knows how much I am looking forward to some twisties since I live in Florida where a good turn is called an 'off ramp".

Another reason for his post is that there is so much focus on engine mods, suspension mods, ect... and brakes are often overlooked! Take me case in point.

Not doubt the dragon puts suspension and brakes to the test. The point was to have max fun and be safe - better pads are not a bad idea.

I doug the hole, placed this thread in it and dump soil on top of it.

RIP

 

The limit on the dragon is 30mph, right? Let's be honest – there is no way in hell that a person is going to experience brake fade while keeping at those speeds. And, while we're all being honest and mature – nobody here is going to stick to 30mph.

Upgrade brakes? Definitely! The stockies are @$^%.