For all of you guys with M7 springs...

What's your setup? Do you just have the springs? How did they affect camber? Did you need new rear control arms (if you have an '05)? Did you need front camber plates?

Thanks!

 

Hey Stricks... I have the M7 Springs along with the H-Sport Competition rear sway bar on my 2002 Cooper. I've had the setup for about 14000 miles, and it's been great. So far, I haven't seen the need for rear control arms, but I may eventually get those down the road just to upgrade the stock arms.

The other thing I think might be a good compliment to the springs would be some Bilstein SP's or Koni FS's. They're not a necessity by any means, but I probably will do that eventually to improve on the stock shocks.

 

I have the M7's and an Alta rear sway with an otherwise stock suspension set up and eerything runs great. Camber was slightly increased but not drastically.

 

So KiLO and MandaBoo, neither you needed front camber plates either?

 

strick, I checked on M7s, JBSF3 used to run on them before his H&R coilovers, i remember he said M7 springs spoiled him so much, softer ride compared to current set-up.

Like Ken said, for lowering spring applications you will not need front camber plates nor rear ones, unles you are setting up your vehicle for track and trying to get over -2.0 camber which is, I think is not necessary.

Keep it simple and within budget, get yourself a set of lowering springs that fits to your taste and budget, and then get an alignment, you will be happy. Seriously you do not need camber plates at all

 

Yeah, I guess I'm being a bit paranoid. I know a local guy running the H-Sports, Koni Yellows, and camber plates, and he's had to do a lot of adjusting to try and get the camber right, and still hasn't gotten it where it needs to be -- I just don't want the same crap to happen to me.

Oh well, I guess I'll get the springs and see what happens next -- and stop the premature bitching...

 

no no nooooo, isn't NAM the best source to get information and share experiences. I am sorry for that guy, but obviously he is doing something wrong considering every thing you listed that he has on the car , that is his problem anyways. I am not a pro racer or a very experienced modder, but i filter all the advises and try to make the best desicion on my mods, it is a trial, live and learn process, sometimes costly, but ones you make a mistake you will not repeat it. Like i said above, just get a set of lowering springs, later on or if your finances allow a rear sway bar and then an alignment, your car is going to be a different beast. Cheapest way to improve handling. Uhhh, ohhhhh, i guess i forgot tires, but i am not gonna go there....

 

Too right -- it is a live an learn process.

Now it's just a question of TEIN S.TECH, H-Sport, or M7 -- TEINs are pretty cheap (about $150 shipped on eBay), H-Sports have a lot of support here on NAM, and M7s sound like a great progressive spring for a daily driver.

Decisions, decisions... :D

 

pm sent

 

No, not even close. The camber is increased in the rear a bit, as was mentioned earlier, but camber plates are not necessary at all.

 

I'll give a dissenting opinion. I run M7 springs, H Sport Comp rear sway, and H Sport rear control arms on an '04. The '05s were the first to offer any camber adjustment in the rear, and I've heard different opinions on whether or not that will be sufficient when lowering. Either way, I really really recommend against leaving too much negative camber in the back, which is what lowering springs without adjustment will do. It gives you a smaller contact patch, wears tires unevenly [which DOES get expensive!], and to me seems like the "quick and dirty" way out [no offense to anyone, believe me, but I have a motto when it comes to cars: "do it right, do it the first time."]. If something can go wrong, it probably will in my world [thanks to Murphy, of course]. My setup is PERFECT right now, couldn't be happier! That's my opinion.

About front camber, you don't need it unless you want to run a lot of front camber, because the stock front suspension has a certain adjustability, regardless of the year of your car. Those above were completely right. Hope that helps!

 

The stock front suspension is a McPherson Strut system. Lowering the front will be a linear adjustment, and camber plates aren't needed unless you want them. It really depends on how minute the level of control over your settings you want. They will allow more aggressive settings in the front suspension.

The rear suspension is a different story. It's a multilink unequal length A-arm suspension, so lowering the suspension will act the same as cornering force does, and change the camber. Does this mean you will need adjustment in the rear? Not necessarily. One thing we've noticed is that every MINI is different. Some with lowering springs have had the camber settle to a nice -1.5 to -2 degree after the install, and some, like mine, have gone as far as -5 or -6 degrees. I definately needed rear control arms. I wish I could tell you the reasons behind this, but I just don't know.

The best suggestion that I can give you is to put the springs on and drive the car for a few hundred miles to let everything settle back in. Then check the camber, and add control arms as necessary to achieve what many people feel is the optimal street setting, around -1.5 to -2 degrees. The installation of the control arms is fairly simple, so I feel this is a pretty safe route to go.

 

Agreed with my bro Will!

 

and I have a tool question. Bentley says I need BMW special tool 31 2 210 to remove the center strut retaining nut (and a 6mm allen to prevent the strut shaft from rotating). However, the instructions with the H-sports say to use a standard spark plug socket, open end wrench, and allen as before.

What size is that socket? Same size on the rears?

Edit: Found it I think in the MCS Spring Install How-To (with big pics) thread.

• Front: 18mm
• Rear: 13mm

 

The front upper strut nut was a different size than 18mm as was listed in the how-to. The upper strut mount was redesigned at some point, i believe it was a 22mm or something similar in my 04mcs.

 

an air impact wrench takes the center strut retaining nut off without the need of an allen wrench.

 

anyone done the spring install? hard / easy?

 

I did the install a few months ago, first time spring swap for me. I found it fairly easy but I had good instructions and the required tools. The only thing that was tricky was getting the front upper strut nut off without an impact wrench but in the end I managed to get that done as well...

 

McPherson struts show a camber change when you lower the car. Unless you have a solid axle or equal length A-arms, camber will change with lowering.

The MINI rear suspension does not use unequal length A-arms. It uses a trailing arm and a pair of locating links on each side in the rear.

 

OK, so how does it get affected by lowering? This question regarded lowering. Please look that up in whatever book you found that information in .

 

Both front and rear have camber changes when lowered, the rear more pronounced than the front. Rather than looking in a book, I looked underneath my car to find the information to correct the erroneous info above.

 

Exactly. Camber gets more negative. The answer was given days ago. Anyways, thanks for reaffirming.

 

As you know, I don't like to leave erroneous information in posts without offering a correction. Imagine if someone searched for posts about springs and camber and came away with the mistaken impression that the MINI uses unequal length rear A-arms and that the front McPherson strut suspension does not change its camber when lowered. Hopefully, the corrected info that I posted was/is helpful to people.

 

So does anyone know the extent of the stock rear camber adjustments on the '05's and '06's?

Is this sufficient in altering the camber in the even that lowering springs have affected the camber too much?

 

Hey cooldaddy, are you just on stock struts? Your's seems to sit a lot lower than i would have expected just from the m7 spring install. I have the m7's as well...just no car yet (soon though)..and if all above is true, how do you like the ride?