Someone please educate me or post a link - what is the advantage of a coilover system?

 

Compared to what?

 

Over our standard suspension.

 

Are you being vague on purpose? Technically, the stock suspension IS a coilover suspension.

If you're talking about something with threaded bodies, then the advantage is height adjustability.

If you're talking about something with an adjustable damper, then that's an advantage.

Being a "coilover" in and of itself provides no inherent advantage. The advantage comes by:
- spring rates
- spring perch adjustments
- shock valving
- shock adjustability
- individual height and preload adjustments
- weight
- servicability
- etc

Obviously the features, or lack thereof vary by product.

 

features... tat's about it...

full coilovers allows corner balancing... which best brings weight to each wheel.. its hard to explain the process...

 

Kaelaria,
I think your question is, why should I consider upgrading to aftermarket coilovers? What advantage is possible?

Yes, the MINI has a coilover suspension right out of the box. And it's reasonably good for street use.

Coilovers come in many price ranges and vary in quality, purpose (street vs track) and adjustability (some are fixed height and non adjustable).

For the average street MINI you don't need coilovers but they may offer some advantage in ride quality over the stock suspension.

Those coilovers that allow for ride height adjustment are helpful to allow for cross balancing (important for track or autocross) and for fine tuning for appearance and rubbing issues.

Some coilovers allow for adjustment of dampers on the shocks for a softer or firmer ride.

Figure that the cost is about $800-$1000 for a basic upgrade and more like $1600 to $2500 for parts, $280 to install and $90 to align. Corner balancing about $120.

Coilovers are durable but if something does break or wear out they can be repaired which is nice. You can choose different springs to use with different shocks and fine tune to your needs based on your use. They can weigh less than stock parts. Some are very easy to adjust and others less so.

 

No, I'm not being vague on purpose, I'm confused on the subject - but now I think I got it. It's the phrase above that I have seen posted so many times (or similar to it) that had me confused.

So the correct statement above should be 'aftermarket adjustable coilovers', not just 'coilovers'? Is that right? When someone says 'upgrade to coil overs' it should be 'upgrade to adjustable coilovers'?

 

Well to me the biggest advantages of the coilovers that I have ran on my last 5 vehicles are:

I set the ride height, not a spring manufacturer.

The rigid feel as compared to stock is a much more solid feel, and gives less bodyroll and more "control".

The springs and shocks are matched to each other, and in most cases to the vehicle they are going on, so you get a more "matched" suspension set up.

My PSS9's are not only ride height adjustable, but also dampening adjustable, so I can run as soft as I want or as hard as I want.

To me and everyone else who has ever ran on coilovers that are quality, insists that it is a feeling of more control, better more solid ride, and greater adjustability to your needs and wants. I will never pass on a coilover set-up made by Bilstein or B&G.

 

kaelaria,
Yes. "coilovers" is short for "aftermarket coilover system (unit/kit)",
Otherwise coilover refers to spring coil over the shock -suspension design.
The "adjustability" is an option you pay more for.

Coilovers can be upgraded to those that are fixed- do not allow for height adjustment and may allow for shock rebound and/or compression settings, or to those that are fully adjustable like Ledas.

See
http://webbmotorsports.com/suspension.php

Many of us that upgrade only springs are using the stock shocks and have no adjustability for ride height, weights at each corner, or for dampening of the shocks. We pick springs based on stiffness, whether they are linear or progressively rated, how much drop they provide front and rear, appearance, and perceived performance.

One disadvantage of using stock shocks is that when used with various aftermarket springs the shocks can get overworked and worn out faster. Another is that with aggressive alignment and more than stock negative camber, ride quality can suffer.
That's why I changed from H-sport springs to Bilstein PSS9 coilovers.

Articles or links-
http://superstreetonline.com/techart...130_0305_tein/

 

Great - thank you very much!

 

Totally agree. Well said.
Having just pulled off my stock shocks with H-sports and replaced with PSS9s, all I can say is I wish I had done the Bilstiens in the first place. The mix of the aftermarket springs and stock shocks became short lived for me, about 10,000 miles at the most before the shocks failed and the springs became overworked and lost there original rates and sagged.
I always heard the same thing as I hear now when people ask about coilovers, "... no need for them on the street.." I think this is very short sided thinking now that I am a PSS9 user. The ride is far superior then my H-sports ever were, and I haven't even taken the time to tune them up yet.
If you have the $1600 to spend, then do it.

 

I am a fan and user of the PSS9s. They just make the suspension more sophisticated. They give you nice ride but come to your aid when the Gs start to rise.

The people that drove my car at the Dragon were very impressed as am I.

 

Are you being vague on purpose? Technically, the stock suspension IS a coilover suspension. - or as a whole, a MacPhearson strut; the damper is a stressed component - provides a locating link - in addition to damping.

 

This an extremely unfair comparison. A $1600 shock/spring combo compared to a set of springs with stock shocks. I would certainly hope the ride was better.

Many people pretend it isn't the case, but stock shocks, on virtually every car on the market, cannot adequately control aftermarket springs. People insist on doing it because they are cheap and want a lowered look. If they were REALLY interested in handling primarily, replacing just the shocks would yield more improvement than just the springs.

In general, I believe that combining shocks and springs, or shocks and adjustable spring perches (ground control) will usually give you at least equal performance for a fraction of the price. The catch to that, of course, is that there isn't a whole lot of choice in aftermarket shocks right now. For example, a set of Koni's with some Ground Control sleeves will run about $900. Functionally, you have the same thing as the PSS9, for $600 less. I'm aware that the ride of each is suited for different purposes, but I'm just wondering what exactly the $600 buys you. The more street-friendly shock valving of the Bilsteins didn't cost any more - the shock bodies aren't aluminum... nothing really. As soon as it's packaged, it somehow becomes worth more. I might eventually end up with a set, but I'll still feel like they're overpriced.

Also keep in mind that there are quite a few cheap "coilovers" on the market - such as the low-end Tein products. Assuming these are high quality just because they're "coilovers" would be a huge mistake -- which is why it's hard to speak in generic terms.

 

Koni shocks and aftermarket springs are not a matched setup for the spring/shock combo. You do not have an engineered setup developed to work together, therefore you will have a slight difference in usability, INMHO. I have driven on many, many setups with just spring and shock combo's, and nothing will compare to the feel and workmanship of the Bilsteins. Lastly, a Koni shock with an aftermarket spring is a great setup, but is still very "soft" in comparison to the true coilover, matched setup.

 

A coilover is just a spring and a shock. Take a shock with the same valving and same spring rate and you'll have the exact same functionality. Matching a spring rate to shock valving isn't rocket science, it's just a matter of preferences. Forget, for a minute, your defense of the PSS9's. Ask yourself why every "coilover" on the market has different shock valving and spring rates. If there was one perfect setup, they would all be the same right? Or maybe there is one perfect setup, and only one company gets it. Is yours that company?

Anyway, I'm not trying to discuss the PSS9's, just the sweeping generalities like "is still very "soft" in comparison to a true coilover". My point, again, is that being a "coilover" doesn't automatically give a product any definite properties. This is a very broad term and lumping them together is quite misleading and inaccurate.

 

When one says "coilovers" im thinking GroundControl type coilovers that go over stock/aftermarket struts (spring, seat locks, sleeve only).



"coilover system" or "coilover kits" tend to make think we're talking
about something like the KW's.


I don't think coilover kits are necessary for MINI's for street use unless
you're going for a real low drop or need adjustability for winter/summer
setups. there are much more economical solutions out there. No need
to overkill a machine that won't be used that way.

 

bilstein also make a sport damper for use with lower aftermarket springs.

 

Kenchan, I agree with the economical solutions defense. There are many ways to add just $200 springs and get a really good stiff, better handling ride. Agreed.
I have just been very biased towards coilovers systems, because for me, they have always been more stiff, and they allow me to adjust it to my preferred ride height. I dont like it slammed, and hate it too low to be non-functional, so I am sure I could get similar results with the H-Sports such as yours, but I am afraid that the stock shocks wont give me the longevity I desire. I know this can be debated over and over, some people prefer this, some that, what it comes down to is, if you are satisfied with your setup, be it coilover systems or a mixed shock/spring combo, then it really doesnt matter what anyone else's opinion states.

 

The main advantage of a "thread" coil-over is corner weight jacking. This allows you to balance your corner weights for "racing condition" loads such as amount of fuel being used, driver's weight with helmet-no passenger, empty cargo, etc. For "street conditions", the load varies from day to day so the only other benifit is increase height adjustability. Koni's have enough adjustability to jar your kidneys plenty. If you're a glutten for punishment, going firmer would not produce any better results for the street other than increased pain

Stock shocks are short-lived when lowered with HSport. They were not designed to operate at that height and they are too soft to compensate for the higher spring rate which results in a bouncier ride. When you switch over to something like Konis, you will experience fewer bottom-outs and slamming over uneven pavement joints.

 

>Stock shocks are short-lived when lowered with HSport. They were not designed to operate at that height and they are too soft to compensate for the higher spring rate which results in a bouncier ride. When you switch over to something like Konis, you will experience fewer bottom-outs and slamming over uneven pavement joints.


MISFITOY-okay, now Im reading a darn advertisement. j/k


>if you are satisfied with your setup, be it coilover systems or a mixed shock/spring combo, then it really doesnt matter what anyone else's opinion states.


Itsdchz- Yep . Satisfied, but there is room for improvement, just not
necessary for my ride. and i seriously doubt that the stock shocks would
wear out that quickly while used on street. the rates aren't THAT much
higher than stock and they're progressive so much less demanding.

 

The following is an unpaid advertisement...Copy Msfitoy's mods

Seriously Ken, when you push the stock shocks past the progressive limit, things starts to loosen up. Of course, things are happening very quickly at that point so you won't notice what you're missing unless you do a A-B comparison through the same turn. Take a look at my images at Killboy and you'll see Msfit's attitude is flat as the road through the corners...

I'd go with Leda's or Bilstein coil-overs if I could afford them just for the "extra" margin of adjustability (too much is not enough) but I really don't have use for that given my current off-track usage.

 

hehe, nono, I believe you.. the sucker's boing boing over
rough(!) RR xrossings. it's comical response is actually what I like
about this car. but other than that rough x-ing, the car runs great
through turns, over bumps, dips, etc. I will get aftermarket dampers
when the time comes, no question about that. I just don't feel the need
for them right now (or are you going to spoil me when you let
me hop on your car in Detroit someday?)

 

While we discuss some of the merits of considering an aftermarket coilover upgrade for the MINI it's important to know that there is a downside.

Upgrading the suspension does change a whole lot- you'd be voiding your suspension warranty. So some might want to use the stock suspension for a few years first then upgrade later. My MCS was 2 years old when I got Bilstein PSS9s.

Having an adjustable suspension allows for greater fine tuning-but this requires your attention. Do you really need this level of adjustment for your use of your MINI?

When you change ride height you can change alignment which can be crucial for autocross or track use. Adjustment of dampening isn't critical for alignment.

Once you make adjustments you need to drive and test your changes to see how they will work with your needs and driving style. This leads to more testing and more adjustments.

It is true that coilover kits or units are not always perfect even though they were "designed" for your car. We each drive differently on different courses or tracks under different circumstances and with different wheels/tires/other suspension parts. So while you can use the coilover kits as is, they can also be fine tuned by changing various parts to get desired results and still have adjustments to ride height or dampening.

It's much easier to just spend $200 and install lowering springs and just drive without having to do all of the rest for some owners. The investment is less but the results and ability to adjust is much less.

So for those that have experience with adjustable aftermarket coilovers- it becomes an easy decision. I have found much the same for those that invest in custom sound systems- they know what can be done and how much better it can be than other options so they don't mind the price of admission.

 

WARNING: The following is headed off topic big-time!

You know how to find us Check our calendar for the next two months...tons of events. Hell...come by on a weekend off company time...we're doing a Dexter A&W run this Sunday around noon. Closer to your side of town...if you've got no plans. 26th, June is the "Eyes on Design" at Ford Estate. Another unpaid advertisement...Msfitoy will be in the show mixing it up with million dollar machines