22mm Alta bar softest setting
2011 JCW sport suspension

Wow - this is how the car should be from the factory - no understeer or oversteer - the car is neutral

Torque steer is reduced

I love this car!

 

Did a DIY install and initially used the middle setting and was immediately pleased with the handling. Thought I would leave it at that setting until I became accustomed to it. Recently I moved to the stiffest setting in preparation for MITO and now it's a whole new ball game. Love the response and agility. Really looking forward to the twisties in the Ozarks! Might have to reinforce the passenger's chicken handle.

 

I like the softest setting so far - it has really perked up the suspension - it is very neutral - does you car oversteer?

 

Could I put it on the medium setting with the stock end links?

 

Yes you can.

 

One thing...
If your car is neutral on the bars softest setting, you likely have too big of a swaybar..
Normaly, you would expect it to be neutral on the bars hardest setting, letting you reduce the stiffness for winters....a neutral or slight oversteer is more than most drivers can handle on a wet/icy road....
General rule is gen2 cars need a smaller bar than gen1 cars...

 

+1, Throttle lift induced oversteer can be scary on public roads in the winter!

The exception is if you are a veteran autocrosser looking to induce oversteer. I use this as an excuse to not let anyone drive my car. I tell them it will try to kill you at anytime!

 

+2.

Just go even further and have some understeer to save you in case of rain and snow. TTO and TBO are going to be unpleasant surprises with consequences.

Btw, how do you guys define neutral handling? How does the car feel when that happens?

 

You could never have truly neutral handling in all situations. A car that handles well imo is one that has minimal understeer or oversteer. A little bit of either makes for a predictable and fast driving as long as either one is not excessive.

Harder for me to describe but if you have ever driven a car that "rotates" you will know it's a very satisfying handling trait. I'm talking from an autocross and track perspective.

 

I went straight to the harder setting on my Alta bar with my '09 JCW. It is not stiff enough to make the car oversteer under static cornering in my experience. BUT it does make the car more susceptible to "snap" oversteer (the more dangerous kind) and I have had to catch the car a couple of times during really hard cornering. But that was only ever with all the traction assists turned off. With it on, you would really have to work to spin the car!

My wife drives the car on the stiffer bar setting everyday

 

If you cannot get oversteer at that stiff setting with 22 mm bar, you are not going fast enough to get closer to the limits of the car. The mini can be quite a struggle at the limits.

Snap oversteer is from TBO and TTO and should not occur without a lift.

Under a constant radius turn, when you go fast enough, you will get a pretty good idea of neutral, oversteer or understeer as the natural tendency of your car's suspension setup.

 

Did you guys ever have the stock sway bar links snap on you?
I have the mini madness swaybar set to the stiffist and it snap in two.
I must mention that my car is lowered. I also have adjustable rear control arms.
I now hove the white lion adjustable sway links and at the stiffist they have a tendency to rub the strut.
I put the setting to the stiffist when I go the Tremblant track. Nice to have the car rotate a bit at the limit. I never accidentally induce lift off over steer with the mini. It is a blast in winters. Then again I was driving an e30 for the longest time.
In the end really depends on your driving style and what you are comfortable with.

 

While the end links look really skimpy, they seem to hold out ok. That said, I did change mine out just in case. Hate to have it snap on the track.

If you have a large 22mm rear sway bar, and had to ask about oversteer, it is best to start with the softest setting.

I came from rear wheel drive track cars such as the lotus Elise, 997 and viper. When you get used to point and shoot of the front drive, you do take lots of liberties with TTO and mash the throttle. Something you would be hesitant to do on the lotus, p-car and viper.

 

I come from a long history of relatively high powered RWD track cars too, and now the mini is my closest thing to a track car. Vettes, Camaros mostly - raced with NASA for a few years in the CMC group. I will most likely do autox more than anything with the Mini. But I am sure knowing me I will find my way onto a track at some point with it

So I've driven AWD at the track - had 2 AWD street cars - Evo and a S4. Those are pretty much slow in and then hammer the throttle and use the AWD to carry you through the corner.

So not sure what you mean by point and shoot - do ellaborate!! I'm still pretty new to this front wheels doing all the driving and all the steering thing... It seems it's not all that drastically different from RWD tho, except you don't exactly cause oversteer with throttle input. Seems like you can still steer with the throttle, it just works a bit backwards. Which takes some seat time, but not too hard to transition.

 

In oversteer, just point the steering at the track out and mash the throttle and pull yourself out of the skid. Very bad habit for rwd but perfectly acceptable for fwd. You do have to be careful in a four wheel drift situation when all four wheels start to slide. In that situation you should do more steering correction before mashing the throttle. Otherwise the front wheels will spin and you will continue your four wheel slide to the edge of the track.

Yes no throttle induced oversteer.

Also, you can liberally use TBO and TTO. The slip angles on the minis is quite large too.

I moved to minis because you can have 80-90% of the fun for about 1/2 the running costs of p-cars etc. just know that when those drivers are good, you will be doing lots of point byes.

 

good input - thanks. I am looking forward to the new challenge of learning FWD.

I probably won't do much track work with this car, but it's my most track capable car right now, so I expect it will see some duty. Since hanging up the full race car I haven't been too interested in track driving in a street car again, but eventually I know I am going to want to get out there again.

 

Please consider who else may potentially drive this car. You do not want your GF, wife or kids in stiff set up car. Way too easy for the inexperienced to make a mistake in the wet or dry with a stiff set up car. They will come into a corner to fast in the MINI and lift.

 

I stopped running track this year as well. Just too many other things to do. Not sure if I will go back since I moved to a place with no tracks that I can get to.

I will not drive some of the cars that people have set up. In the case of a suspension, more is better does not work especially on the track.

 

I could not agree with you more.

Funny, the track people are generally saying don't go too stiff and those running on the street go with full stiffness.

 

It takes just ONE slick spot, or one car broken down on a ramp you are taking hard to change your mind...and possibly your underpants!!
Back to the op....a sway bar is about turning, but having one too stiff does have negatives beyond turning....it transmits bumps from side to side along with g's...so you can make the ride worse, and decrease ride/traction on some roads. Suspension mods are about picking the Right parts to give a good blend of handling and capabilities. One goal for many is to be almost neuteal with the bar on the TIGHTEST setting, letting you back it off for streets, snow, etc....heck i suggest folks start out on a light setting, and go stronger over a cuople weeks, or a few days doing driver education events, and actually seeing the difference in the settings, and learning the in's and outs of a bigger bar.

 

I run a stock JCW with Nitto NT01's in 225's at the track. There is a lot of body roll compared to MINI's running SB's set in stiff. They are very flat in the corners. They are running 7/10ths and I have to run 9/10ths to run as fast or faster. I have driven the 2009 MINI Challange winning race car. In the wet with street tires. Then added racing slicks in the light rain and stiffened up the car. Whole different game and very tough to hold on too.
Was 6 seconds faster in the rain on slicks than the street tires. But did tighten the suspension. The only way it is drivable fast is with the throttle. You have to keep the power to the front wheels. Then we went dry and full race stiff. The car will rotate so fast you can not look out the front windscreen for the next corner. You must use the side windows or you will never catch up to the next corner. You learn a ton in a safe manner. I had a save in the rain that even impressed the Pro. When slicks let go in the rain its about the same as glare ice. The street is not a good place to be testing your limits. I really want a stiffer rear sway but I have to dedicate the car to track and my driving only. Some dealers will refuse to let there people even test drive a car set up this way for other problems. Too much liability and unsafe. Keeping the throttle down on the track is one thing. Not always possible on the street as strange stuff happens. The MINI is short and the *** end can come around fast. I have actually never spun one yet but have been close. I have seen many go around on the track. The classic too fast into the corner and lift and brake spin. Most newbies on the track and even vets are running to much air pressure and heat in the center of the tire. Every time at the track I find somebody. "My tires are toast I need new ones. They are squirelly all over the track". 34lbs and 210 degree street tires. Had the rears pumped up even higher he said to help roatate the car. More like skid the car. Death ride. Went to 25 cold and ran an even 175 across the entire tire when hot. He said it was like a new car.

They say you can't drift a FWD MINI. Turn 5 at The Ridge is full throttle in 3rd gear left tire on the inside curb *** end off about 10 degrees sliding up the track towards the outside. Keep the peddle to the floor and let her slide all the way to the edge of the track to the outside curb using all the track and catch 4th gear towards the carousel. Brake hard and down shift to 3rd and toss her a bit sideways and back on the gas hard. Feel her come up on 3 wheels and she rotates hard through the long corner. Why we love the MINI. Only thing that I can't catch through 4-5-6 was a full blown current Mustang Race car that is still 3400lbs. I went buy as I slid out of turn 5. Caught him in the Carousel and then he walked away throught the corner. I was not expecting that from a 3400lb car. He could put the power down and the rear end stuck like glue. If I had the sway bar I would have been much flatter and able to carry more speed. Ok I need a track day now!

 

I should add, this is our DS autocross car on the weekends. I really haven't felt the stiffest setting is too stiff at all. My experience anyway, but I wish the stiffest setting was actually the middle, and there was an even stiffer option on the bar (for autocross anyway) This is on stock springs though and I'm sure I would want to back off the setting for road course's.

 

Camber plates results in the need for a smaller swaybar....
And improves handling more...so a medium sized swaybar, then camberplates is a good combo for most.

 

Don't know about what you car is doing with your setup but I have it on softest setting and I can get oversteer on demand with my setup.