Hey all,

I'm going to invest some of my hard-earned tax rebate into some suspension upgrades this summer to my 06 MCS with 40k miles. I don't have enough money for coilovers, so I'm looking at either the H-Sport or TSW springs. Both seem well designed and highly recommended, so it seems that the difference comes down to a progressive versus a linear spring rate. My car is a daily driver, and I've been tracking / autocrossing it a couple times a year for fun. I'm looking for a spring that won't rattle my eyeballs out on highway trips, but will upgrade the cornering performance of the car. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
-Ben

 

my vote goes to..... TSW

 

I'd go with linear rate. Those springs are said to be predicatable at the limits. The stock springs are linear.

It will always be a trade off between comfort and performance. An alternative to springs that will still provide a vast improvement would be camber plates and polyurithane control arm bushings.

 

Progressive = Less predictable spring rate (It's ever changing) but more comfortable in every day driving.

Linear = More Predictible spring rate (It's always the same) but less comfortable (stiffer).

It really depends on how much performance you're looking for. I have no problems with my Cross Coilovers (I run them on my daily driver). I thought h-sport was too soft, and caused excessive body roll.

 

rustyboy155: "caused excessive body roll" - More body roll than stock?

I think I need to find someone with TSWs and go for a ride. I'm curious how uncomfortable they are. I have a reasonable tolerance for NVH, but I don't want to scare off any potential "passengers," if you know what I mean.

 

I have the TSW with IE fixed plates. I think the ride is equal if not a tad better than stock. After reading the downsides of progressive springs I decided to go linear since I like to track my car.

I will say from an aesthetic point of view though the front could drop a little more. I even have the updated ones with more front drop, but still there is some gap.

 

I thought so. You'd be surprised how many aftermarket spring companies actually make progressive springs that are SOFTER than stock.

I saw a set of H-Sport springs go on an Evo last week that were the EXACT same height, just softer (Which lowered the car about an inch). The customer didn't seem to mind because he said the ride was too harsh stock.

Progressive rate springs are just springs that are wound with an increasing spring constant.

Aka, one inch of compression requires 100 lbs of force. The second inch requires 140 lbs, the third inch requires 180 lbs, so on and so forth. The more pressure the spring is "Asked" to resist, the stiffer it gets. This is great for the street because you get a mild bump in performance without the ride harshness (Stiff springs can be bouncy).

The problem comes in when the springs are asked to compress rapidly at varying degrees of compression (Think twisty canyon road). You never know quite how much resistance the spring is going to offer, because it depends on how much force is being applied to it.

With a single rate spring, it resists the same amount of pressure whether 100 lbs of force is being applied to it or 1,000 lbs of force is being applied. Single rate springs often subconciously inspire more confidence in the car, because it's just more predictable at the limit.

Nobody really knows what a car with variable rate springs is going to do because nobody can memorize the spring tension at every point of travel.

If you see the track at all, I'd go with Linear springs. It'll be more fun, trust me .

 

TSW Springs
Koni Yellows
Ireland Fixed Plates


Jim

 

I know H&R springs were not on your list but you might want to investigate because the drop is a little more than TSW. I thought that the H&R spring stiffness was just about right.

 

TSW springs if you do any tracking or autocrossing.

The car will be more more predictable as said above.

 

H-sport springs + Koni FSD -- FTW

 

Clearest description I've seen yet - I actually understand linear vs progressive now and have read a lot of threads on springs - THANKS RUSTYBOY!

 

NP .

 

One thing that I noticed after changing to progressive rate springs (JCW), is that the ride is more refined and smoother. And though I understand the philosophy behind the explanation above with regards to predictability, I think that once you get a feel for the progressive rate springs and a feel for the car at the limit, you can in fact predict them better, though maybe not as much as the linear rate springs. However, since I don't track my car, the progressive rate springs were a good choice for me. At the Dragon last weekend I was very happy with the performance of the car, even on the tight switchbacks, and I felt no unpredictability with the springs.

 

TSW.

 

One of the posts, above, suggests that the R56 (sport) suspension springs are linear, while another of the posts says the JCW springs are progressive.

Is that correct?

 

I just installed the TSW springs and love them the "stiffer" ride some people talk about is not noticeable in my opinion. I love them....perfect drop (small) and very reactive.

Chris

 

Thanks guys.

I have a set of H-Sports sitting under my couch, but I think I'm going to pick up a set of TSW springs based on the feedback here. Less bodyroll is good, I like the description of "very reactive," and as long as it's not crazy stiff, I can live with the ride. I don't have to haul kids around or drive on terrible city roads, either. NCDOT does a good job.

BTW, I think predictiveness is kind of a moot point, because if you drive a car long enough, it's going to become predictable.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davisflyer
One thing that I noticed after changing to progressive rate springs (JCW), is that the ride is more refined and smoother. And though I understand the philosophy behind the explanation above with regards to predictability, I think that once you get a feel for the progressive rate springs and a feel for the car at the limit, you can in fact predict them better, though maybe not as much as the linear rate springs. However, since I don't track my car, the progressive rate springs were a good choice for me. At the Dragon last weekend I was very happy with the performance of the car, even on the tight switchbacks, and I felt no unpredictability with the springs.

I have to say that this was my experience too. I recently went with the H-Sports about 4 days before the Dragon this year and was really surprised that with as soft as they were on the street they really reacted well to the twisties of 129. Although I would HIGHLY recommend getting new struts when changing over. I ran with my stock struts and it was a little spongy when braking into the corners. Some Koni's would be good as well as sway bars front and back. Just my opinion though.

 

Oops... double post!

 

Is there a difference in the Koni Yellow and the other set that comes with the springs?

 

These are the same shocks just with a set of progressive rate springs to go with it. If you are buying shocks, I have heard good things about that kit. I would buy that kit.

Otherwise, go with linear FTW!

 

TSW + Koni Yellow (Middle of dampening range) + H-Sport Camber Plates

 

The springs may not be progressive, but the mini in stock form is a bumpstop active car - the bumpstops are always working to add a progressive rate to the spring. Even if the springs are linear, the bumpstop design make the system progressive. H&R, for example, retain this philosophy in their kit designs.

The springs may at first look progressive because the coils are designed to fold into one another yielding more spring travel than a traditional spring. The mini's springs are barrel shaped.

 

That is good to know. Didn't realize the Mini used the bumpstops in that way.