Yea I understand thT - but is it safe etc?

 

yes its safe but you need to get an alignment dont once you do it. Some say you dont but every car is setup up different. So if you want to feel safe get the alignment and enjoy the new steering response.

 

adam - have your dealer do it or a shop you trust if you are worried about doing it yourself. However, your link seems to be a little optimistic as to how much change you can get. The rest of the thread seems to say about 0.6 - 0.7 deg not the 0.9 they say. As it it is, the change is less than 1/4 inch at the wheel, if the math above is correct. Not much for improving wheel to arch clearance. Also, there is nothing said in the link about correcting the toe-in. You're going to need an alignment if you do it your self. My toe-in went to 22' vs 7' by the factory specs.

 

So, all you care about is the LOOKS? Negative camber is to improve the handling.

Math: Front camber: Ball joint to top of strut is about 26 inches.
(2 * pi * 26) / 360 gives .45 inches per degree the top of the strut needs to move. Look at the pictures or pull one nut off and see how much there is the strut will slide. Not much. It has been suggested there is enough flat space in the fender to grind about another 3/16's so a total possible shift of about .3 inches. If centered really is .33 negative, then yes, you could get close to -.9 degrees.



How far is that on the tire? Well -.9 degrees is only about a quarter of an inch displacement at the tread.

 

Does anyone know if this stock suspension "slide over" thing works with a fixed camber plate like Ireland makes? It seems that if these two can be combined then you should get about -1.5 deg camber (Ireland plates 1.25 + ~0.3 from the slide over) without the expense of the adjustable plates.

 

Yes it works together.

 

I don't think the adjustable camber plates are that expensive for the effect you get. I run 2.5 degree negative with adjustable K-Mac plates and the car is much closer to neutral without having to reduce rear grip with a larger sway bar. I can apply the power (what there is of it in a JAC ) much earlier in the curves.

 

I have not picked plates yet. How is the K-Mac for NVH? I was kind of leaning to some with poly or rubber in them.

 

The V and the H seems fine, but they do give a bit of N.
I get some clunk sounds from the suspension, and I suppose you'd rate them as fairly loud - not alarming but quite noticeable. I can't say I notice it all that often - mainly over speed bumps in car parks or on very bumpy surfaces around town. At speed it seems fine - certainly OK on smooth roads, as you'd expect, and there's probably occasional clunks on larger bumps but I can't say I notice them (mind you, the sunroof's not exactly quiet on bumpy roads at speed either!)
I hope that helps?

 

Yes, thanks. I have a rattle in back neither I nor the dealer can find. They keep adjusting the hatch. Not it. Sounds like something small-ish inside the body about belt-line height. I have not tested the sunroof. Good idea. Yes, I stuff the rear seatbelts in tight. Man will they drive you crazy banging on the plastic. I had th enoise before I changes shocks, so I can remind the dealer I did not cause it.

I have to drive on a lot of terrible roads. Sounds like I should get some with at least a poly liner. Quality matters too.

 

I had an umbrella hanging in the luggage netting and it was banging on the back of the rear seat over bumps. That took some finding!
I hope you find your rattle.
The sunroofs are a known rattle source, opened and closed... Sometimes opening mine about 1/4 inch helps it to stop rattling.

 

What's up with my 2007 cooper s? I have the slots to move the top of the struts, but my "nub" is metal. So I can't remove it. Anyone else have this issue.

 

tvr... take some electrical tape and wrap it around the U shaped portion of the latch on your trunk... the actual trunk lid, not the latch on the car. Then close the hatch and drive it around, tell me if you still hear it. 95% says this is it. I couldn't find the rattle for months. tried this and now its so quiet. mmm

 

Tape confirmed the source. Thanks. Dealer adjusted again. So far, OK.

 

Leave it to BMW to start a model and change it. I have a late-year '07 and mine had (they're gone now) the plastic nubs. My guess is that this is just a locator pin to make assembly easier and they quickly found that plastic was cheaper and didn't damage the paint when it went through the hole. Now, the hole in the camber plate on my '07 is about 7/32s which is smaller than the hole in the strut tower. Guessing again, the hole in the camber plate has probably not changed (no reason to if the above is right). So given the smaller hole in the camber plate and the pin fitting snuggly in the strut tower hole, the pin probably has a smaller nub on the bottom that is just pressed or screwed into the camber plate. You might try to just grip it with a set of pliers and try to wiggle/pull out or unscrew it. If you can get that out, this is the best change you can make to the car for the money (wheel alignment) and effort spent! However, it will increase your toe-in and you will need to get that reset otherwise you will not get the full benefit of the camber change and it will increase tire wear. Hope this works for you.

 

Just unscrew the metal nub. It'll be fine. They changed to the plastic plug in late 07-early 08 time frame.

 

ok , yes I am total tard. I swear I am going blind. I looked at my metal nub last night and did not notice that its a #4 hex. I would have unscrewed it then and and there. I thought it was just a circle, so that is why I came and posted here. Then I went tonight to do it with pliers and wasn't getting too far. So I looked closer and realized that circle was actually a hex.. derka f'ing der...

 

Good pictures. That will help the next person. Now, go out and enjoy!

 

Just a fyi, I tried the adjustment with the stock on my 09 Clubman and only got -.5 camber and it did mess up my toe a lot. The slots are so short that they are covered by the nuts. Anyway, I cooked a tire at the track, the toe wore the tire too fast and the camber only allowed half the tire to be used. Cooked it so bad that the tread started to separate I was VERY lucky that it did not separate while on the track.

I'm going to install camber plates before the next track day and get a good alignment LOL.

You may be fine driving around on the street for a while with out an alignment, it will only wear out your tires faster. But on the track its a different story.

 

it seems strange that your toe would have been messed up a lot. The cooking was probably more about not using the middle pedal enough than the alignment.

Was this an autocross or long track?

 

Sorry, didn't say, it was a road race track. But, really, blaming it on not using brakes?? Really? Not sure I see that argument.

I should have gone to the alignment shop first, but did take it in to see what was wrong the next day, and the toe was the only thing off. I'll try and add the readings some time, I have the report at home. Had it reset to values I've used on other cars and it did improve the handling around town. But, not going to head back to the track until I get the camber plates installed and back to the alignment shop to make sure its setup as well as can be done.

My factory toe could have been at the higher end of the spec, and the camber change made it more pronounced. Or maybe the toe was a little out of wack because of use. But, not sure, did not have the specs checked before trying to adjust the camber. The point though is not who is 'right' only that an alignment should be done any time you mess with the suspension. If only to save wear on your tires. And that goes 2x if you go autox or road racing.

 

I had the dealer make the change for me on my '07S and they gave me the alignment printout. Here's the result
The camber target (factor setting) is -0 deg 23 min (~ -0.3 deg)
Just pushing the strut over to the edge of the slot: -0.67 deg.
Here's the problem: Toe-in target IS 0 deg 7 min +/- 5 min (~ 0.1 deg) per wheel. If it was at the high end 12 min (~0.2 deg)
After changing the camber the toe-in went to 0.37 deg per wheel or almost 0.5 deg if it started at the high end. Way too much for anything

With the full alignment the street feel was great. However, at -0.67 deg there still was not enough camber to keep the tires from rolling over on their side during an autocross.

I now have the Ireland fixed plates (-1.25 deg + the -0.3 gives about -1.6 deg total) and really like them. I would recommend them to the "casual" tracker. However, they do have a harsher ride.

As for the tire wear, I agree, that was probably a result of the toe-in. I saw that after I installed the fixed plates and before getting the wheels aligned. Again, the feel was greatly improved, but without the alignment the tires showed noticeable wear in just one autocross - plus my times were terrible!

If you are tracking the car I would strongly suggest a 19mm - mid setting - or 20mm - softest setting - rear sway bar (leave the 22mm bar for the serious trackers and mod'ers) instead of the camber plates or do both. But, if it is a choice between the two, the bar will do more for the car than anything else. It will flatten the car out which reduces the camber issue and it will greatly reduce the terminal understeer that the Minis are born with . Camber plate will do little for the understeer . I saw this on an '04 S at WGI 2 weeks ago - 19 mm bar only. His tires had good wear with no signs of rolling over onto the sidewalls. However, I must say that my Mini with the Ireland plates and 20mm rear bar has been transformed into an absolute go-cart .
If you DIY, there is a really good youtube video on replacing the rear swaybar and there is a really good post on NAM for replacing the camber plates.

 

I asked because my point isn't as valid on a long track as it would have been on an autocross track. By saying not using the brakes enough I'm talked about entering the corners too fast - which will eat the front tires very quickly on an autocross course. Long course too of course, but there aren't as many sharp corners. Since the distance is much longer than autocross I can see where the alignment would have more effect.

I used the the pin pulling trick every autocross race and never had a problem with extreme tire wear.

 

As my rear bar came Friday, do you have a link to the video of which you speak? I do not have a lift, so was being a bit timid about doing it myself. The problem is, I do not know of a shop with 60 miles who I would trust. Taking it to Mach V means a day off work.

If it is not too hot today ( been over 100), I intend to grind my front fender slots this AM.

 

Well. only 92 out there. Grinding the slots could not have been easier. From walking out to the car to sitting down at breakfast, about an hour. I left it set at stock so I can let the tire shop do an alignment when I get time. I don't know how further one could spot them, I did 3/16.