meb: thanks for going ot and questioning some of my observations. i'll re-read your post and look closely at what is happening w/ my suspension. i will comment in a new thread, so as to not further corrupt this thread.....
OP: i still say "add" (negative) front camber!

 

JMHO? Camber plates will help immensely with your setup - if you don't have rear control arms, toss a set of those in, too so that your alignment shop can dial in what you want...

Camber plates definitely DO help with initial turn-in AND grip in the corners - it usually also means backing OFF the rear swaybar setting, depending on your alignment setup, as the car may get twitchy. In nearly every circumstance we've seen, we ALWAYS back a 19mm - 22mm bar off to full soft initially after installing camber plates. Then, it's up to the driver to determine if they want to change the attitude of the car...

Camber plates are HANDS DOWN the biggest bang-for-the-buck suspension modification you can do outside a rear swaybar change.

For a street friendly setup: -2 degrees camber up front, -1.5 in the rear, 0 toe up front and slight toe in for the rear (1/16" - 1/8" total toe).

For a more aggro setup: -2.5 degrees of camber up front, -1.5 in the rear, 0 toe in the front and slight toe in for the rear (1/16" - 1/8" total toe). Anything greater than -2.5 (even with r-comps) and we've seen a point of diminishing returns, especially on a street legal car - for a race car, though, all rules go out the window.

Either of these setups produce fine straight line stability - although, you DO have to pay close attention to your steering wheel with the aggro setup I mentioned. The car WILL wander a bit on the highway.

For the more agressive setup, you need to be RITUALISTIC in your tire rotations - every 3K miles for the street, and if you have a set of track wheels/tires, rotate them after each event (front to back, no criss-crossing). For the street setup, I'd still recommend rotating your tires every 3-5K miles to ensure good wear.

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks txwerks and everybody else! I sorted out whole tire pressure thing. Doing 34 cold front and back and the car feels great! I think I am going to hold on the front camber plates, eventhough I am considering the Ireland Fixed Plates and a OMP front strut bar to stop mushrooming and get more stabily and turn-in. Also I want to match my OMP lower strut brace! Will adding the front strut brace along with the lower srut brace add more understeer since the front of the car will be stiffer?

 

Here is a link the OMP front brace:
ITS PRETTYYY!

http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=291

 

Chilipeppa03: why did you solicit the advice of this panel? you totally ignored conventional wisdom and went for "pretty".

 

Its just I want to see what I can achieve with out getting camber plates for now and see how the brace feels first. BELIEVE me guys I take every word in! Right now I am looking at the M7 and OMP front brace. My car is hardly autocrossed anymore. I just want a good setup for my agressive street driving.

 

That OMP brace doesn't look like it will do anything about mushrooming. That is the #1 reason I chose the M7 brace.

 

but I dont like the fact that the m7 brace raises the hood 1/4 and you have to modify the hood to make it fit.

 

Just get M7's anti-mushrooming deals and you'll be fine. These work very, very well. As far as the SB is concerned...I'm not a believer and I've tried a few. Reason? The Mini's engine is the SB...just observe how the engine is fastened in the engine bay.

I removed and reinstalled a SB while at the track several times just to feel the difference...the fanny dyno could not detect a difference. Your mileage may vary...

 

I am still confused on what mushrooming looks like. How does it effect the way the car drives? Is is really noticable?

 

Hey Meb with the M7 plate installed did you feel a difference in the way the car drove? Was the car more stable on large bumps? Was the car more responsive with better turn-in? THANKS!

 

not to put words in his mouth. But he is saying here that he couldn't tell the difference with our without a strut bar.

The reinforcement plates will do nothing for handling+feel. They are simply a preventitive measure to stop the top of your strut tower from deforming due to bumps. If you don't know what I'm talking about here is a picture of the most severe mushrooming i've ever seen



it can be much more slight... such as all the bolts pointing away from each other.

If you're looking for real tangible performance increases look for something that people agree that helps. I don't think the strut tower bars help... but that's the thing... if people disagree on it chances are it either doesn't help or it helps so little that it shouldn't be way down near the end of your list. Camber plates and control arms are agreed upon making a huge difference. So why not get results from your money?

 

How hard is it to install the Ireland fixed camber plates? Is it just like installing springs? Do I have to modify anything?

 

exactly the same as installing front springs. You simply just swap the hats. You'll need an alignment after. I may suggest adjustable plates as typically the camber isn't perfect from right to left. That way you can end up with exactly the same settings from side to side.

 

But this is a mostly street driven car doing like 400 miles plus a week! Also the adj ones are $270 vs $180. I am thinking about doing -1.5 camber in the front and -1.2 in the back with 1/16 toe out in the front and 1/6 toe in in the rear. What u guys think? I can't make up my mind. I don't know what I want to buy!

 

Yes, exactly!

 

I got a lot of my info from meb and other people that track or autoX often. I'd still spring for the adjustables but that's just me.... i think you'll be happy with both the fixed or adjustables to be perfectly honest.

Your alignmetn settings are pretty close to what i'm running.
-1.75 front camber
1/16 out
-1.5 rear camber
1/16 in

If you're mostly on the street and you already have a rear sway bar i'd suggest 0 toe in front and 1/16 in in back. Otherwise you're g2g.

Just an fyi... with toe out in front your car is going to hunt for a grove like mad. If you drive a lot of miles and i think 400 miles a week counts as a good amount i'd go for 0 toe.

 

Will 0 toe out in the front hurt turn in?
__________________

 

Also will -1.2 camber in the rear give me more rotation? Right now I have a 18mm HandR rear sway with a soft and stiff setting. That should be enough for rotation?

 

alignment settings are amazingly subjective. Toe out does help initial turn in... however it makes your car very twitchy. For a car that is a street car i think camber and a rear bar give you enough turn in where 0 toe in front is the setting to run.

I think you'll be surprised how much a little camber is going to change your cars feel. If you were an autoX maniac (read: 3-4x a month) toe out in front may be a good idea... otherwise it's not worth the twitchiness and tire wear.

p.s. meb: feel free to correct me at any time here... you know more about the mini's suspension geometry then i ever will.

 

So I probaly get the Ireland fixed camber plates and do this alignment:

Front Camber: -1.5
Front Toe: 0 toe
Rear Camber: -1.2
Rear Toe: 1/6 toe in

Good for turn in, straight line stabilty and rotation?

 

With the fixed plates, you get what you’re dealt (unless custom built), there’s no adjustment. It could range from -1.5 to -2 and be a little different from one side to the next; a couple tenths disparity is not an issue. For straight line stability, toe-in is the answer. For quick turn-in, narrow tires with stiff sidewalls.

When adding negative camber up front, and using conventional springs, be aware there might be spring contact with the inside driver’s side wheel well requiring intelligent shaping.

 

Just make sure that will fit under your JUSTACOOPER bonnet.

 

This is an inportant point.

Fully adjustable front camber plates allow you to adjust both right and left front suspension to make them "match" and have the same camber of your choice with some limitations based on where your suspension parts start to limit further adjustment.

Fixed plates will give you more negative camber in front but not allow for adjustment and often the right and left camber are not the same.

Front toe of zero should be fine for street driving.

I don't drive that much but some on the street and have front toe of 1/8" out and my tire wear and street handling is fine.

More negative camber in the front up to about -2.0 to -2.5 degrees is helpful for performance driving.

Rear camber should be less negative than the fronts to reduce understeer.
-1.0 to -1.2 degrees is fine for street use.

 

Thanks guys, I am going to go with this:
Front Camber: -1.5
Front Toe: 0 toe
Rear Camber: -1.2
Rear Toe: 1/6 toe in
I cant wait for this new setup! My suspension is almost finally done!
Another question, is my 18mm HandR rear sway good for this new setup I am going to have?