I have an H-Sport 19mm rear sway, set in the middle setting, and it's WAY different than my sports suspension stock bar... with all due respect to your other modder. My car is almost dead neutral handling, between the swaybar and the M7 USS. Possible to oversteer, but you have to "try" to do it, so it's still wife-friendly - which is also a consideration for me.

The sway rate of the H-Sport 19mm bar is significantly greater than the stock bar, even in its softest setting. If you want a "wife-friendly" car - and your wife isn't a performance driving enthusiast, I'd stick with the 19mm bar...

 

For a street driven car a 19mm seems to be perfect to me. If you are going to Auto X then I can see the need for a 22mm.

Now Ken, a strut bar isn't useless.

Let me list all of the benefits here....

1. It puts money in the pocket of those who sell them.

2. It makes you feel like your car will be stiffer & handle better. Too bad it doesn't & it won't.

3. It gives you another place to Hydro, if you drive with your bonnet open.

 

Hey Blimey, you may think your car doesn't understeer, but it still does. At street speeds the bar has raised the limit that understeer is encountered. At track speeds it's still going to understeer. On track camber plates are the next step, but even with them a FWD car is still going to understeer, although at a higher speed.

 

That's a perfectly fair assessment. Street speeds are all I care about. But I "get" it.

 

That wasn't a knock. The 19mm bar is a great addition. I bet you can tighten your rear bar to full stiff & your wife will not notice. Mine hasn't.

 

Didn't take it as a knock - it's all good.

Might have to give that a try.

 

I agree that the effect of a swaybar depends on your other mods as well. I have a 25.5mm hollow rear bar, the car's lowered on coilovers, with camber plates in the front, adjustable control arms in the rear, corner balanced, and using sticky street tires when autocrossing.

Even with the big bar, I still don't have the "rotation on demand" that other people seem to get just with a 19mm bar and a stock suspension. Even intentionally lifting the throttle in the middle of a fast sweeper doesn't make the rear end come around, and when I'm at the car's limits, it still wants to understeer instead of oversteer. (Of course, those limits are a *lot* higher than before I did the suspension upgrades).

In short, think about what other mods you're considering. A bar that might make a stock-suspension car "twitchy" and prone to oversteer might be perfectly tame when installed along with some other suspension upgrades.

 

I'm on stock ride height. Rear 19mm on medium and front tower brace seems to be a good combo for me. Understeer is lessened, but it has not become a snap-oversteer car. Certainly can feel the car rotate when lifting the throttle in a sweeper--gotta' be movin' though. The wife loves it. She is not an agressive driver, but can handle her share of speed. I put Koni FSDs on the car too. I'm not sure how that skews my results...

Bottom line: me likey...
dan

 

Absolutely good advice - and why we see so many differing opinions on how much bar is "enough"...

 

OK, so I have no mods suspension wise, but plan to lower with H-Sports for the look (and M7 SRPs but they don't count).

19mm still good?

 

no. the soft setting on 22mm was too soft with h-sports. thus why
i recommend 22mm on stiff setting. 19mm will be too soft.

 

Rear... sway... bar...

19mm H&R has worked with every suspension setup I have had on my car... I have never wished for more over 4 different suspension setups (OEM SS+, Bilstein SP/H&R, TSW/Leda Softcore, TSW/AST/Swift Softcore).

 

 

txworks- let me guess...those are linear rate springs. h-sports are progressive
and the initial bump is soft...making the car roll more after turns and
wont be upright fast enough without a stiffer rear bar than 19mm.

that's from my experience running the 03 stiffer stock dampers.

 

True, yes... Linear springs for the win!

I've driven a lot of MINIs with OEM suspensions and a 22mm rear bar - try taking a slalom at speed (steady state, increasing or decreasing, doesn't matter), and tell me it understeers under hard transitions. You'll swap ends faster than uh, Anne Heche?

Same goes for the track, when you turn in and breathe off the throttle and have to correct, mid-corner. There have been many occassions where we've brought someone back to the paddock and put their 22mm rear bar on full soft to make the car behave on the track/AX course where normal drivers can control it...

It's been our opinion for a long, long time that many, many people have way, WAY too much rear bar. Either you like the tail waggling out (which is fine, if you do), or you're not pushing it hard enough.

 

txwerks- yah, that makes sense.

i posted above (couple posts up) with caution about using
22mm on stock springs. i think 22mm works great with the
h-sports though.

 

Hey there- '06 MCS here- I'm in your boat too as far as daily use vs. potential track days. I got a(n H-Sport 19mm) rear sway bar about three months before the (M7) STB. I feel much more satisfied having had the rear sway bar first. By satisfied I mean much more control, as there was an apparent learning curve to the sway bar:

Like most folks, I have become accustomed to body roll through my driving years (yes, even in a stock MINI). The sudden the lack of it freaked me out for awhile! I describe the feeling as if the car is rotating on its center, instead of the front end leading the back end through a turn. It took a few months of getting used to (I don't drive twisties enough). I've only used the softest setting so far and it doesn't negatively effect "rideability" at all.

The introduction of the strut tower brace brought the feeling of additional stability to the car. Still noticeable right out the gate, but not freak-me-out noticeable. So I guess it's what you're looking for: Control? Or stability?

I could be way off, but that's my 2 cents based on personal experience. (Oh yeah- Springs are next!)

 

Now THAT'S funny.

 

Have you thought about buying used parts? I buy most everything used. This is how I obtained the sway bar and strut tower brace within a couple of months of one another. The parts I got were in very nice conditions and the pricing was so good that I basically got two for the price of one.

 

My next mod this spring is going to be camber plates and rear sway bar--I'm a novice, have a 2006 JCW works with the JCW suspension--I was leaning toward a 22mm rear sway bar, but after txwerks post, I think with my car, and at my level, I'd be better off with the 19mm. I'm not going to little (actually probably no) autocrossing; I'm strictly running on the track. In this situation is there a consensus on rear sway bar size? Where I'm at now, there's noticeable understeer, but on the other hand I don't want to overdo it and lose the back end, especially on a high speed turn.

 

It's better to err on the side of understeer, IMHO, especially if there's hard stuff to hit if you go off...

Again, I haven't ever found myself wanting more effective rate from a rear swaybar than what the 19mm H&R provides - in fact, I've softened mine up on many occassions, given track conditions, course layout, etc.

 

+86749-021435702 on the 19mm rear sway bar, I couldnt belive the diffrance, I myself have the 19mm Promini (promini, Dinan and a few others are just H&R bars with a diffrant color and sticker on it)

 

I disagree to an extent. I have H-sport springs and a 19mm rear bar on full stiff. But I also have a custom alignment with camber plates up front and adjustable rear control arms....and sticky tires on light rims

I feel my car is very well planted and in control. I debated, pondered, questioned the size of the rear bar I wanted, ended up with a 19mm adjustable over the larger bars. My car already can drift out in the back, any stiffer, it would get away from me in hard corners I think. I love how well my car turns in and my camber settings are not crazy.

I also removed my STB as I felt no difference with it on or off, a good alignment and tires can make as much of a difference as anything

 

I don't know much about Anne Heche but I can tell you the rear swings around quicker than you can do anything about it when it lets go completely. I had just put the 25mm Comp bar on and it was set on soft. I have the H-sport springs and 615s on the car as well. I was at a AutoX school doing a slalom section over and over again. I was increasing speed and working on my line. I really starting to get to the limit of speed and traction. I had one more run at it and I pushed a bit more. It was too much and my steering input was just a little bit too aggresive and I was looking out the back window to see where I was going before I even felt it let go. The tail steps out great on sweepers but it will bite you if you go too far or have to lift in the wrong spot. The next step for me is camber plates and a good alignment. If that gives me more oversteer, I'm might be going to a 19mm bar instead. I think with the 19mm I could use the adjustment settings, unlike now where I have it on soft and could stand less bar for the street. I love the comp bar for auto X but on the street I would like something with a bit more forgiveness incase I'm forced into a bad spot. I don't see how some of you guys have 22mm bars set to stiff. Your braver than me.

 

03Indigo reminds me that I forgot to mention in my previous post/opinion, that I got the M7 Strut Tower Brace- purely as bling. My buttometer notices a difference with and w/o the STB, but it could be all in my head. (why is that statement so funny to me?)

Anyway, I didn't want to be misleading, so there you have it.

:i: