Hi all. I'm new here and I have ordered a new 2007 MINI Cooper S. However, I just noticed that the new engines will be turbo charged instead of super charged.
I am concerned over the fact that the new Cooper S will be a turbo charged engine. Due to my problematic experience with a 1988 Volvo with a turbo, I am thinking about changing my order to a regular Cooper. I have a few questions concerning this issue.

Are turbo charged engines prone to more problems than say a naturally aspirated engine?

Are super chargers more reliable than turbos?

Have they worked out the kinks in turbo chargers in the last 19 years? (I hope they have.)

I really want the Cooper S because it's so much more badass, but I don't want to deal with the problems associated with turbos. Thanks.

-Pete

 

Just my opinion here, but I believe turbo'ed motors today are certainly far more reliabe than those of yesteryear. Look at the number of turbo models currently available in a lot of cars nowadays. Subaru and VW are good examples, since they've been using turbos in their vehicles for a while now. If you were to look at the number of cars today that come stock with either a turbo or supercharger, you'll find more manufacturers offer the turbo option. Not to mention, a lot of improvements have been made over the years to make turbos just as reliable as any supercharged car. As far as more problems with a forced-induction car versus naturally-aspirated, I'd wager that a naturally-aspirated engine should have less problems, considering naturally-aspirated motors have less moving parts. At the end of the day, though, it really is how you treat your car and whether you maintain it properly with proper fluid changes and such to determine how reliable it will be. I mean, setting aside any manufacturer defects, I believe that to be the case. I'm sure you'll have a great time getting the MC or MCS, but I've always opted for the more powerful version of a particular model. Let's face it, the MINI is one of those cars you pick up to have one with and if you like performance in anyway, get the car that offers that and don't skimp on it simply due to whether a turbo is more problematic. Hate to say it, but going along with the common consensus, you'll always have that bullet-proof BMW warranty in case anything goes wrong.

GotMINI

 

Pete, I'd say it's a non-issue these days. Lots of turbo cars out there without any problems. It's almost twenty years since your 88 turbo Volvo & much has changed. While the Cooper will be a fine car a Cooper S will be that much finer.

One thing that may come up is if BMW MINI still insists on its long oil change intervals. IMO that would be bad news for a turbo engine. Change your oil every 5,000 & all should be fine.

Now I'll just sit back & let folks tell me how 15,000 mile changes are good for an engine.

 

Thanks everyone for your input. I think you have eased my worries enough to warrant sticking with the MCS. Thank you.

 

Definatley a non issue, a two vane turbo is fitted so the lag is dealt with, it produces similar power to a supercharger without the load on the engine.

 

One of the biggest improvement over older turbos is the fact that you don't have to sit and idle for a couple minutes after a spirited run to let the turbo cool down. The MINI has an auxiliary cooling system for the turbo that runs for awhile after you turn off the engine.

 

Pistol Pete,

There are loads of diesels in my homeland Germany. There would not be if they did not work well. I'd be very surprised if a new MINI turbo gives you even 1/4 of the trouble you had with that 1988 turbo Volvo. I used to rent a little BMW wagon turbo in 2005 before I moved to California. It was fun and fast.

You asked whether superchargers are more reliable than turbos. In general, "No. They are equally reliable." If I were in Germany where we can maintain higher speeds for longer periods, I'd want the diesel over the supercharger. Here in the US, either is OK.

 

Actually, it is still a great idea to let the turbo cool or to put a turbo timer in.

 

Why cant we all just trust BMW that they wouldnt steer us wrong with the turbo. They have been producing great cars for a very long time, and I believe they know what they are doing

 

Bear in mind that this engine is also in the Peugeot and Ctiroen ranges, if they have major problems it will cost a fortune for the manufaturers.

 

you can just send the money you'll spend my way...it will do more good in my pocket than on your car

seriously though...modern turbo's are oil-cooled and as said above, there's no need for a turbo timer to run the car after driving it to keep things circulating. Excessive heat is death for a turbo....manufacturers know this and have designed the cooling systems to properly cool the turbo down with the ignition off.

 

If you have been on your turbo for a bit and immediately shut down the engine, coking will occur without some method to keep the oil moving for a bit after engine shut down. Particularly if you are not using a synthetic oil.

Turbos are like any other mechanical device under the hood. They are subject to wear and tear. Under typical use and modest boost, a turbo charger should last a good 50,000 miles before it starts to lose a significant amount of boost ability.

But it can last longer or shorter. It really depends on the environment it is being used in and how well maintained the engine is.

The rest of the engine will also need more attention, more frequently, than a non-turbo charged version of the engine. Piston rings have a tendency to break down faster. The cylinder walls have a tendency to develope a flaring wear pattern. Exhaust valves tend to wear faster. It is all due to the extra heat and pressure the engine must cope with.

 

After dealing with turbo engines from Mitsubishi, I would say the best add-on that I ever did was a turbo timer. Other than a turbo timer, these new enignes are pretty bullet-proof. You just want to let your car come down in temp a bit before you turn it off or you want to install a turbo timer, set the intervals, and forget it.

 

I have had two turbo Volvos over the past few years and have had great experiances with both.

From what I've been reading, the new MINI uses both oil and water for cooling. When the engine is shut off, an auxillary electric pump continues to circulate water and cool the turbo.

So, skip the turbo timer. It's allready there.

 

Modern turbo's are pretty reliable. Speaking from some experience here's some tips to making your turbo engine last a LONG time:

1) Use quality synthetic oil and get an oil analysis done to determine the best oil change interval.

Explanation: From what I've read/my Fiance's Cooper S- Mini does a better job with this than my car (Saab); but basically the computer doesn't always do the best job determing when it's time for an oil change. Do a few oil analysis (fuel contamination is the big one with a turbo engine caused by blowby at high boost) and determine the best interval based on your driving/mods and stick to it. For my car (Saab 9-5 Aero) that's 4-5k whereas the computer says generally around 9k- but if your analysis shows the computer is spot on- then great!

2) Don't beat on it immediately before shutting down the engine; a few miles of normal/easy driving should be sufficient to cool the turbo/oil appropriately.

Explanation: You don't want stagnant oil sitting in a red hot turbo; the water cooling helps it cool down faster.

3) Watch your mods; understand how the effect the WHOLE system

Explanation: Understand what you are doing to your car; upgrading the bypass valve may not be a good idea- if it doesn't open fast enough you can stall the turbo which will damage the bearings quickly. Turning up the boost may give you extra power- but it also eats more fuel, generates more heat, and can take the turbo out of its efficiency range; it can also up cylinder pressures beyond safe levels (even without detonation; for example- my Saab can hit 21.5 psi under certain conditions...some upgraded ECUs will hit 25psi...under the right conditions that + compression is enough to destroy the piston without detonation ever occuring- BETTER tuners instead provide a cooler charge and slow the turbine speed (intake work generally) in order to achieve the same power with less boost).

4) Let the car come up to temperature before beating on it (not just water temp, oil temp as well- which takes longer).

Explanation: Common sense, but once you see water temp at operating level- give it another few minutes to let the oil come up as well.

Basically, the moral of the story is that a turbo engine requires you to be a "more" responsible owner than an NA engine which is a little more forgiving; other than that it's going to be just as reliable. Just be careful with modding and take a fully researched/full system approach- so many "tuners" will turn up the boost and advance and make incredible power numbers- without really taking into account what they are doing- the result is a lot of power; but it isn't sustainable (heatsoak, detonation, etc) so it's therefore worthless and placing your car at risk.

Hope this helps...I'm sure I forgot plenty.

 

I have a Audi/Volkswagen 1.8 Turbo with 145K miles on it... never saw synthetic until 100K where I started reading about sludge!

Anyway, the turbo is still going strong (knock on wood...)

 

Glad to here you've had good luck with your 1.8T. My wifes A4 sludged up with less than 40,000 miles on the clock.

My advice.....if you buy a turbo treat it well, use a good synthetic oil & change it at reasonable intervals.

 

My Audi S4 has two turbos and neither one has been a problem with over 130K miles on them. My wife's A4's has over 50K without any turbo problems. If you ask around the Miata community, people with after market turbos often running at pretty high stress levels have some problems, but not as many as you would expect.

For me, I always follow the same rules that Saab used to advise all 900 Turbo drivers- let the car idle for around 30 seconds before you shut it off (for all the reasons the others mentioned above).

 

with a modern oil-cooled turbo, this is not needed (as said many times already in this thread) the coolant continues to circulate through the turbo after the car is shut off. The only way there's a benefit to idling for 30 seconds is if you coming screaming into a parking lot, on boost, Tokyo Drift style.

 

What brand of synthetic are you guys considering good quality? I am planning to change oil myself and wondering where do you guys buy the oil and filters.

 

Castrol is what Mini recommends. I've used it for years on my BMWs and have had good luck with it. Available in most any parts house. Filters? Check the vendor listings here and let them ship the filters to you!

 

I've been using Mobil 1. The 5 quart jugs are convenient... keep a extra one in the garage so you can use it for recycling your used oil afterwards!

 

Just a couple of points that I have noticed about the MCS

1. The MCS will not let you run the car hard cold. Only after the car is warmed up will full boost be available.
2. No need for a turbo timer. The car after being run continues to run a pump to circulate the oil/coolant to cool off. A turbo timer IMO is a waste. I would also bet that somehow in the ECU programing that you can lower the temp that this pump comes on and for how long it runs.

I have own several turbo cars and this one seems to be pretty smart in that respect. I have had a 800rwhp supra, and many modded Subaru's. None of these cars had these built in features. Its clear to see the evolution in Factory ECU protection built in by BMW.

 

so I see conflicting info

does it have an oil pump that runs after the car is shut of?

or a water pump that runs after the car is shut off?

or both oil & water pump that runs when shut off?

 

Just a water pumps that runs after shut off. While the engine is running it is cooled by both water and oil.