Do you trust BMW when they say "lifetime" transmission fluid?

I change my engine oil once a year, which is about 8K for me. But I'm a bit worried about my Midlands tranny so I just had that changed after 4 1/2 years and 40K.

 

:impatient :impatient :impatient
Statistically there are very few high mileage cars on the road. Tell you what........you provide the proof of your statement that the engine will not be damaged in the long run with the rec. oil service. Can't.....didn't think so.

 

We might have different cars, mine's a '05 MCS but tranny change intervals are in my manual (i know cuz i checked it out right before my recent "Inspection I" aka the "25k service", even though very little actual "service" is performed). I believe they spent more time on my LNI, Little Naggin' Issues, than on Inspection I).

By the way mine doesn't say "lifetime transmission..." but there are several different transmissions out there.

tatt

 

The getrag in my '02 MCS says "lifetime." The Bentley manual for 02-04 says the same thing. I still changed it to Redline MTL a month ago.

 

Evening all,oil gets changed every 5K Mobil One 5-30

 

Good find by KPMINI. I found this part interesting. It would appear that a quality mineral oil should be changed at 3000 mile intervals based on its tested wear scar. Mobil 1 exhibits a slightly smaller wear scar at 10,000 miles. A bit of math shows mobil 1's wear scar at 12000 will equal Havolines wear scar at 3000 miles. Since no one was willing to run Havoline past the 3000 mile mark, it stands to reason that no one should be willing to run Mobil 1 past 12000 miles. Yet BMW says 15000 is fine. Seems like that might be 3000 too many!

Fun with figures. I'm going to change mine every 4-5000 and darn it I'm also going to run Castrol Syntec just like MINI recommends. And, I'll put another ten on Rawhyde.

 

Oh wait, the topic is a poll... I left factory oil in until 10k per the service indicator. I did a DIY oil change at 17,500 (possibly just an excuse to buy ramps and tools? you decide?). As previously mentioned I just had "Inspection 1" so I'm right now on new oil. My "Free" "Maintenance" will include one more oil change, at about 40k. For my own personal comfort level, that's too far to go. I plan one DIY change in between now and then. So, I'm not "once a year" quite.

All MINIs are created equal... and then they change their oil,
Tatt

 

Every 5K miles. Mobil1 10W30 in the MINI.

 

Can't prove it will, can't prove it won't. However, I can prove that the oil at 10K miles is still providing proper protection. What is your point? Also, you can't use the word "statistics" as you have none. Obviously you never took a statistics course...

I'm done with this. You guys hash it out as no amount of empirical proof will help you understand.

 

Bye Bye.........

Now maybe we can have a mature discussion

 

Figured that I would post this link. It pretty much sums up what I have been shown and told....

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

It is a good read.

 

That is a very interesting read...

Their data suggests that more wear happens in the first 3000 miles than in the 5-10k miles that follow them (accumulation of 'wear metals' in the sampled oil)... suggesting that people who change their synthetic oil every 3000 miles are actually causing MORE wear on their engines (due to oil) than those people who wait 8-10k miles! This seems so counter intuitive that I'd question the validity and sensitivity of their metal assay at different concentration levels, but, if everything was on the up and up, it turns a lot of what we have been taught by Dad and Granddad on it's head.

I'm not sure I'm buyin' it, but it's an interesting study that makes you think about the assumptions we make with oil changes.

 

Yeah, I zoomed in on that "more wear with new oil" point, too. Wonder if it's by design or by accident that it seems consistent with the (longish) MINI-recommended oil change intervals. Does it follow that people who change at 7,500 miles cause more wear than those who do it by the book?

 

I couldn't find if it was a brand new car at the start of the test or one already with a pack of miles on it. If new, I would think there would naturally be more wear in the first 3000 miles and dropping off as miles piled on. So the early wear might not be a function of the oil at all. It's not likely they would overlook that possibility but who knows?

 

From the looks of the car, it's been around the block a few times.

Edit: When they started the test, the car had 9,939 miles on it.

 

I do not disagree that the oil can last 10,000 miles but the problem is with the oil filter and keeping all the junk out oil and motor. Even daflake's link states the filter should be changed every 5,000 miles. My feeling is that if I have to change the filter every 5,000 miles than I might as well change the oil at the same time.

 

Remember that that is not a MINI and I believe that the recommened oil interval for that car is 5000 miles. I was concerned about the oil filter as well and was told by my BMW mech friend that the oil filter is designed to go the distance.

I know that I said I was done with this, but I at least wanted to try and post some semi-solid (it is a personal site and not a controlled experiment)information on what I had been informed about.

I would say that people who change the oil from about 5K on are not doing too bad. However, the oil can go longer and it ismy belief that there is nothing wrong with it. The bottom line is that the choice is yours. From all the data that I have seen and professionals that I have spoken too, I see no reason to change the oil so early and I choose to wait.

Lastly, I wanted to throw this out as well. Here in Germany oil is not cheap. I paid 21 Euro for a liter of Mobil 1 (that is about 25 dollars for a little more than a quart). Germans (as do most Europeans) have a great desire for a longer lasting product.

 

I withdraw all my comments on this thread..... this is like arguing religion with the Taliban.... neither side is going to give...total waste of time. Each one of us will do what we want and I wish all of us good luck either way.

Now where did I put my filter socket, hehe.

Seriously, I plan on putting my (still good M1 according to some of you), into my wife's worn out Accord. She burns through oil at a pretty good clip.

My other cars have anywhere from 400K to 500K each, so I know what I need to do to make an engine last a long time.

YD

YD

 

That is not the question. The question is will following the BMW maintenaince schedule cause the engine to fail ... within a reasonable number of miles, say over 100K. NOT whether or not there is less wear. That means very little since you dont know how much farther the other engine can go before failing.

As to you offer ... funny you should mention that ... TRUE STORY.

In 1983 I had a Porsche 944, I religiously changed the oil every 3K myself out in the street. A friend of mine took the old oil, which still was yellow ... and poured it into his 10 year old Blazer he kept until 250K miles

And again it says, 3K is a waste

The fact is, just like TTAC says, people are going to believe what Jiffy Lube and others sell them ... The sky is falling.

There is no point in trying to change their minds ... Old Think.

 

Agreed. 5k interval with Redline 5w synthetic oil. no problems at 45K.

 

I've always been a "factory-recommended-interval" kind of guy, and while I've never owned a car longer than 200,000 miles, the ONLY time I've ever had a car "burn oil" was when the valve-guide seals have shrunk over time, and there's nothing that shorter intervals would have done to help that. Pop off the head, replace the seals, and you're back in business.

When I do compression checks on any of my vehicles, the numbers are always high and consistent. I've taken the heads off of engines with 150,000+ miles where I can still see the factory honing marks on the cylinder walls, and the "ridge" from the top piston ring has been virtually non-existent.

I think a lot of it has to do with the technological advances in oils, and the tighter tolerances when the engines are designed and built in the first place. As a point of comparison, the owner's manual for my 1972 Mercedes says that "normal" oil consumption is approximately 1 quart per 1,000 miles driven. Any modern car that burnt that much oil would probably indicate a damaged engine!

 

My friends family has a late 80's Supra. When they rebuilt the engine at ~240k miles, the honing marks were still there. Not to say that it wasn't burning oil...it's nickname was "smokey" It's appetite for 20w-50 was great.

My '70 Lotus Europa actually has 3-5k mile oil change intervals. Although they probably took into account the fact that you've replaced the oil twice by then from the leaks . Tranny fluid, on the other hand, is supposed to be replaced every 6 months.

And for those of you who want to know what the break-in procedure was for the Europa, first service was at 300 miles. Second was 1200. They also re-torqued the cylinder head bolts during one of these services. Talk about advances in technology!

 

Followed the reccomended OCI once (10k miles on the odo). It was the one and only 10K mile OCI I ever did.

Oil was begining to show signs of breakdown and slightly elevated wear metals ~ very minor albeit. Contrasted to all prior and post OCI, which were/are 6-8k miles - none of which show any sign of breakdown/wear.

I know a lot depends on driving style, trip duration etc... but the MINI computer count down would've had me wait a lot longer.

Each fill, including original factory was analyzed ~ tested high for silicon (with 23 miles on the odo) btw.

 

I'd be curious how much of the oil consumption was from ring wear and how much was from leaking valve guide seals. The valve guide seal leaks are easy to spot - it starts off with a puff of blue smoke from the tailpipe when you start the car in the morning after it's sat all night, and within a year or so, your car looks like a mosquito fogger!

 

I guess I'm the big experiment on this....

I've always followed the recomended interval for every car I have ever owned, and have never had any regets.
82 GMC truck , changed every 3000 miles - rebuild at ~190,000 miles
97 Honda civic, changes every 7500 miles - sold at over 250,000 miles still never burned any oil (it was non synthetic too)
(I've owned others, but not kept them long enough to mention)

Now the 03 Cooper S (warning.... it will freak some of you out)

1st change 13,000 miles
2nd change @ 32,000 miles (19,000 between)
3rd change @ 52,779 miles (20,779 between)
4th change @ 73,866 miles (21,087 between)
5th change @ 93,987 miles (20,121 between)
6th change @ 117,511 miles (23,524 between, little longer because I had an oil plug issue, and it took two weeks to get it shipped to me)
Next due in ~7,000 miles and I turn 130,000 tomorrow.

Am I killing it? I don't believe so. I'm using about the same amount of oil between changes as I did when I first got it. ~1/4 quart between changes.


If I am, I'll let you all know when it goes

Nik