+1

 

First off let me say ignote is totally right.

The best help might be to take away your tools.

The sputter/limp mode sounds more like the bypass valve problems that the DT BPV was supposed to solve.

You have just created a bigger monster to kill. If your wife were smart she would lock up your tool boxes.

 

I just got through reading this whole thread, and while your last post sort of shocked me, I'm not going to tell you to put your tools away.

Keep your tools out but you are going to need PATIENCE!

I think all of us know how difficult it is when your baby doesn't run AND you have new toys to put on her. But if you're not going to diagnose your first problem then you might as well take all those new toys and hang them from your bedroom ceiling with little pieces of string so you can stare at them.

I'm not convinced that there isn't any pressure building up in your cover. I say that because the pressure took 30 minutes to build up when your wife was driving. I don't think that is the kind of pressure you're going to feel with your hand over the oil hole. Try something along the lines of sealing a deflated plastic bag over the hole and see if it inflates over a 10 minute period.

This may sound like a PIA, but it'll save you more time and frustration then you can think of. Take everything off that you put on after and including the OCC. Don't worry about the foam or anything else related to OCC or the BPV. Just take it off and drive it around. The first thing you want to do is find WHAT caused it.

You need to know WHAT caused it before you can figured out the WHY. And the only way to find WHAT it was, is by process of elimination.

I know it's frustrating, and it sucks, but it's the fastest and least aggrivating way you are going to get your baby back.

 

^ +1

 

Here is an alternate possibility...

If the lines were teed together, then there is no Positive Crankcase Ventilation, just pressure venting. This means that any "stuff" in the engine is not being flushed out by fresh air, just allowed to vent. Under certain conditions both the blow by, and the "boil off from the oil" can be combustable. So it is a possibility that the engine air spaces were full of a combustable gas.

So we have an engine crank case and valve cover full of combustable gas, all we need is a source of ignition and boom.

One other thought. If you tee the lines together, thus eliminating the PCV function, be sure to change your oil every 1,500 to 3,000 miles, just like in the old days before cars had PCV.


John

 

Maybe I've got the systems confused with each other, but wouldn't we see more of this explosion from all the people doing the VGS? (me included?)

 

As I recall the VGS is a relocation of the manifold vacum sensing (port) line from right at the bypass valve to some distance away to reduce oscilations.

Manifold vacum is used to draft the PCV valve.

I did not study your diagram to see where in the process you moved the PCV to. If you opened the crankcase to full manifold vacum, then you will see things collapse, which I think you described. Under certain LEAN conditions an engine can backfire. A backfire is when the gasses in the INTAKE manifold ignite. (most people think an explosion in the exhaust system with the accompanying loud bang a backfire) If you had a "PCV free" path from the manifold to the vent system, then that could be the source of the ignition.

I once misadjusted an engine and then drove it. I literally burned the paper filters right out of the air boxes.

Just a few thoughts.
John

 

Do yourself a favor. Remove as many mods as possible and try to start fresh. THEN add ONE mod at a time, give it a few days and move on if there are no problems. You're working with a very complicated system, and changing multiple variables AFTER experiencing a catastrophic failure is simply not a good idea.
At this point you need to get a code reader so you can find out what your engine is having problems with.

 

Thanks for the diagram, that helps.

 

It's normal for an Alta plumbed that way. They have fix for it though, hopefully they'll comp it for you to keep your business.

M7 uses a metal can so they're immune to this.

 

OK... I am going to get off work early tomorrow and mess with the car.

I will do the "back to stock mod" and see how things work.

If it still does not run after making it stock, I am stumped. I guess the next step would be to have the codes read.

Where would you get the codes read. Does it have to be a mechanic, or would somewhere like Pep boys or Autozone be able to help me with it?

I know the DT BPV and VGS were dumb to install now..... I swear MarioKart talked me into it!!!!

Somebody has to take both of our toolboxes away!

 

Or borrow one from Kragen, AutoZone, PepBoys or whoever is local to you...

I don't think the VGS or the BP-V have anything to do with this. But I think you'd benefit from some more information on the systems in our cars. The Bentely manual has a bunch of good descriptions in it. Also, for boosted cars, I like Corky Bells "Supercharged!" as a good introduction to the basics of forced induction motors. There's a review of it in the Reviews section.

But slow down a bit. Someone had posted that if you routed the can the way you did the second time, that it would need reinforcement. So slow down a bit, and pay attention to the tid-bits of information that people offer.

To put things in persepctive, the power density of the MCS motor makes the Z06 corvette seem like a low output motor. I would suggest that anyone who wants to mess with it start with reading, not bolt ons.

Matt

 

Yeah Right! I was the guy calming down your wife. Man she sure does blaming you for the blow up. Good thing she doesnt have to deal with my F*cked up Mini. I hope it works out tomorrow. Give me a call as soon as you put it back to stock. Make sure you clean those plugs and belt to get all that oil off. BTW sushi was good you should of met us there, way better than working on the Mini in the freezing cold.

 

"Come on man, you already got it apart, you might as well"; "hurry up we got to get to sushi, fire this thing up already". Thats what I remember.

Anyhoo, check out this code reader you guys from MOSS MINI. They are local and I can stop by there tomorrow. Is this good enough? Will this one do everything that I need one for?

I should also pick up a Bentley manual from them. Boy, $84.95 for the manual is hard to swallow!

Is the Bentley one the best to get? They also have Haynes and a couple others.

Mario, You want to go halfsies on this stuff???? We obviously could use it!
Oh yah... Our chicks are supposed to take our toolboxes away. Maybe we dont need this stuff.....

Once I get the codes off the reader, will the Manual tell me what they mean???

Thanks, J

 

and you can get the Bentely on eBay for $60..... I haven't used the Haynes, so I don't know what's in it. The Bentely only covers to 05 or so, so the differences for the later cars won't be there....

Matt

 

Thanks Dr. O

So this code reader is good enough? Is it worth it to go the next step up for over twice the price?

Tomorrow will be interesting with the codes and "back to stock mod" and all.

There really is not much to put back to stock. Thats what is weird...

Diverter
engine dampener
OCC
VGS
BPV
Intake (which was done along time ago and has been fine)

I probably wil not take off the intake. Are any others not needed to be removed? Like there is no way in hell that has anything to do with it????
I know the engine dampener might not..... but then again... I had it set pretty stiff and it could of vibrated something... hmmmm.

 

Oh yeah it is all coming back to me now. Your right I said the BPV but not the VGS. So I guess we will call it even 50/50 right. I thought a Mini meant smaller problems.

 

only one of them can have any effect on blocking blow-by from the engine compartment... The OCC install. The BPV and the VGS both work on vacuum lines, but don't have any real flow to speak of. The intake COULD have a plug in the vent line to the Airbox-TB hose, but this is short and easy to check and it's stiff so no problem there. The diverter can't do any of this stuff, it's just on top of the motor, and the vibration dampener has nothing to do with the vent gas routing.

For the scanner, the thing that you really have to look at is generic vs model specific codes. Any scanner will get you generic codes, but some manufacturer specific codes may not be decoded into english on the less expenisve scanners. You will still get the number. Cheaper scanners don't do what's known as "freeze frame" data, that is a picture of the car state (speed, RPM, load, temp etc) when the code was thrown. The CAN extensions are for 2008 year cars and later when the OBD-II interface is repalced with a faster CAN based hardware interface.

FWIW, I think the Peak tool uses the BMW/Mini diagnostic calls as well as the generic stuff, and AutoEnginuity has a product that has Mini BMW extensions. There's a whole world here of diagnostics, from $50 to well over $10k.

Matt

 

If I look at the descriptions of the code readers from MOSS... It looks like the one for $134 bucks might be worth the extra money. It looks like it has model specific code descriptions, like Dr. O is talking about, and the freeze frame capability...

Should I go for the $134 model???? What would you guys do in my shoes.



BTW, I really understand and appreciate the advice about learning more about the car and being patient. It does make alot of sense... I do need a proper manual and read up more....

Although, to be honest I have been trying to learn more about the MINI before diving into anything major. Also, I am not completley green around an engine bay. There is a reason that I have not done anything major as far as motor mods go yet in the year I have owned the car.... Its not the money....I mean look at the mods... really nothing.... I read the posts, gather advice and opinions, then move forward. Believe me, I am itching for crank pulleys, Heads, 19%, Shrick's, Uni chip, etc.... But the more I read and experience... The more I believe that JCW got it right.... Like my wife has been saying... No Mod is as fun as actually being able to drive the car....

This is why I am bummed and confused by my situation. There is no obvious culprit to such a major incidence. The car only has 30k miles and has been well cared for...

 

Personally, I would just take the OCC off. After 8kmi on mine when i had the car, ,,, I see no real benifit...

 

I've been reading all this and without a real understanding how exactly how you plumbed up your hoses and exactly what was pinched, etc. But from the beginning it has been hard for me to accept that the VC exploded like it did from just crankcase pressure that was not vented. I think one of the hoses would have blown off or blown out before the VC went.

I can't get the idea of somehow a combustable mixture got in the there and you had an explosion. I still would have to study the original plumbing set up very carefully to bet on anything.

All the guys before me who suggest that you go back to stock and start evaluating and then adding one mod at a time in a scientific manner, and giving each mod enough run time are totally correct. I would also take some digital pics of what you do each time and make some notes. Do this in a professional/scientific manner instead of a cluster ####.

Good luck and keep us all in the loop, we are all learning from your experiences. And experience is golden.

YD

 

I am with Dr. O take off the OCC and also I am not a fan of the VGS.... loose those... and see how she runs...

 

So tonight I unhooked the OCC and reversed the VGS. The only remaining motor related mods on the car are the intake, Engine dampener, Alta air diverter and DT BPV.

I am pretty much convinced now that that the reason for the sudden jerk and limp mode the other night after reassembly was the belt slipping. The belt has major oil on it. Tomorrow I am going to give it a thorough cleaning with brake cleaner. I bought a new one from MOSS today, but I am being told that the one on the car still has a lot of life on it and could be cleaned good enough, plus they are pain to put on. I think I will go for the clean up route first.

So I am still super confused how the valve cover could of blown in the first place. But for now I think I will leave the OCC unhooked.

The car feels really smooth and strong, but I have not revved it at all yet because I dont want the belt to slip again before I clean it. Maybe up to 4000 rpm. I am trying to get back on the road very easily. Its just hard to trust the car not knowing how the valve cover originally blew up.

I also bought a nice code reader and Bentley manual today from MOSS. The codes thrown the other night after the belt slipped and it went into limp mode are...

P1229/Throttle sensor adaption failure
P0302/Cylinder 2 misfire detected

The SES light came on right when I first started it after the repair, then went off after turning the engine off and on a couple times. Then both the SES light was flashing and the EML light came on when the alleged belt slipped. Do these codes make sense with what happened? Remember I made the genius move of doing the VGS mod and installed the DT BPV while it was apart before I drove it that night.



When I am checking pressure and flow on the valve cover vents holes... I am putting my fingers over both holes and not feeling much pressure building against my fingers. If I cover them both up for say 10-20 seconds while the car is idleing, then release the intake side one its a light poooh... If I cover them both up and release the PCV valve side one there is really no release at all... It actually feels like it could have a little more vacuum to it than pressure. I guess this is the way it should be from who I have talked to.

Jeff from Alta and Scott from Central Coast coopers have been very helpful.....

The thing that I am baffled by is that.... while the car is idleing and I put my finger over the end of the small grey tube (the one you normally cap off when installing the OCC in the original Alta instructions)... (I cant find the name of it in the Bentley manual, It goes to the PCV valve.) The car like chokes out and almost stops running!. Is this normal? How is this not an issue when you cap it off installing the OCC? and re route the hoses with the two vents tee'd together, going to the OCC then onto the intake tube?
You totally eliminate it in the Alta installation. That grey tube has alot of vacuum on my car... It sucks hard. It doesnt make sense that you would just cap it off in the Alta routing.... Is this normal???


I am just trying to make sure that everything is A OK before I start really driving the car again. Like I said without really understanding why the valve cover blew in the first place it is hard to be at ease. I would sure like to mark this one up as a manufacturing flaw with the valve cover, or normal fatigue on the cover.....



This Bentley manual is really thick, I got alot of reading to do!....

Thanks for everybodies support.

 

Been following this post since the beginning and glad it is starting to look like things are getting back to normal for you and your car. Just do alot of short motoring over the wekend to make sure all of the issues are resolved before going on any long drives.

keep us updated and slooow down on the mods and enjoy your mini. I know I have the mod bug as well and I am alway thinking of what I should do next.

 

Too funny. Now you know what it is like to have a REAL British car. Reminds me of when I bought my wife's 66 MGBGT (valentine's day present---her dream car; not mine) and spent every free moment for 8 months touching every damn part on that car to rebuild or replace everything before ever turning the ignition on. The first few drives were a series of ever so slightly longer trips before something else would surface and need to be sorted. Felt like a new cat (jaguar?) finally getting out of the house and gradually increasing my home range but always keeping one eye on the house and my quickest escape back to safety! Good luck and kudos to your good attitude through all this.