Help, My oil looks like greasy mustard mucus (pictures)
, driving hard on a cold engine
#52
12-19-2006, 08:56 PM
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tough choice
I'll take answer C if you are really looking to trash an engine.
Not a contest I want to win!Water is better than coolant though. Coolant will leach the lead out of bearings in pretty short order, even if the engine isn't running. Letting an engine sit with water (from condensation) in the oil isn't quite so hard on it as coolant is, but I would still try to avoid it if possible to avoid any iron/steel parts oxidizing. Rust particles could potentially lead to accelerated wear on components.
Since it is something that we occasionally do (deliberately) in the test cells at work, I know firsthand what can happen if you really put the hammer to a cold engine. Bangs, radical changes in airflow through the block, occasionally a little fire extingusher action, a game of "find all the pieces" and a bunch of mopping. You know you've really done it right when the only thing connecting the front and rear of the block is the head and the oil pan!
Scott
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#53
12-20-2006, 07:11 AM
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Where is the recommended location for the Oil Temp sensor on the MCS?
Those could have been pictures of my car about this time last year. 
As posted numerous times, it is condensation that is not getting boiled off because you aren't getting the oil pan temp over 100C (aka the boiling point of water). While condensation is just a fact of life in engines, running your engine with that much in the oil isn't good for it.
Drain the oil, change the filter, wipe off all you can from the dipstick, oil fill cap and the oil fill opening in the valve cover.
Here's the step that hasn't been mentioned yet: put some cardboard in front of the radiator. I'd suggest covering up at least half of the radiator. If you cut a piece the full width of the radiator and roughly half to 2/3rds as high you can just drop it in the opening in front of the radiator.
This will help get your coolant temp fully up a little faster and help get the oil pan temp up high enough to boil that water off. Been there, done that, watched the oil temp in my own MCS. The first time I drove the car after changing the oil, there was a distinct whoosh of escaping steam when I cracked open the oil fill cap at the end of the drive. I didn't have any more milky oil after that, and left the cardboard in front of the radiator until daytime temps were back up into the 60s.
Your cooling system will work just fine, even in stop-and-go traffic or idleing in drive-thru's, with airflow through just half of the radiator during the winter months.
This is just one of the reasons I put an oil temperature gauge in my car. FYI, if you haven't spent some time driving a car with an oil temp gauge, I'll warn you that it takes much, much longer to get the oil up to operating temperatures than it does the coolant. Plus, in the MINI the coolant temperature gauge is misleading anyway, to avoid freaking out the mechanically uneducated. Even in the summer, it takes my car about 6 miles of normal city driving to get the oil up to 100C. In the winter, it takes a lot longer or never even gets there. Close doesn't count with boiling points.
Here's a free "excuse" from an automotive engineer; when it's cold out, once you've had the coolant temperature up for a couple of miles, start leaning on the gas pedal a little harder. The added load of some aggressive accelerating will help put some more heat in the sytem and help get the oil temp up to 100C. Just make sure that you do this after you've changed that oil and after several miles of driving (like half a dozen or more) to get the oil mostly warmed up and thinned out. Go enjoy your car a little more.
Scott
90SM
As posted numerous times, it is condensation that is not getting boiled off because you aren't getting the oil pan temp over 100C (aka the boiling point of water). While condensation is just a fact of life in engines, running your engine with that much in the oil isn't good for it. Drain the oil, change the filter, wipe off all you can from the dipstick, oil fill cap and the oil fill opening in the valve cover.
Here's the step that hasn't been mentioned yet: put some cardboard in front of the radiator. I'd suggest covering up at least half of the radiator. If you cut a piece the full width of the radiator and roughly half to 2/3rds as high you can just drop it in the opening in front of the radiator.
This will help get your coolant temp fully up a little faster and help get the oil pan temp up high enough to boil that water off. Been there, done that, watched the oil temp in my own MCS. The first time I drove the car after changing the oil, there was a distinct whoosh of escaping steam when I cracked open the oil fill cap at the end of the drive. I didn't have any more milky oil after that, and left the cardboard in front of the radiator until daytime temps were back up into the 60s.
Your cooling system will work just fine, even in stop-and-go traffic or idleing in drive-thru's, with airflow through just half of the radiator during the winter months.
This is just one of the reasons I put an oil temperature gauge in my car. FYI, if you haven't spent some time driving a car with an oil temp gauge, I'll warn you that it takes much, much longer to get the oil up to operating temperatures than it does the coolant. Plus, in the MINI the coolant temperature gauge is misleading anyway, to avoid freaking out the mechanically uneducated. Even in the summer, it takes my car about 6 miles of normal city driving to get the oil up to 100C. In the winter, it takes a lot longer or never even gets there. Close doesn't count with boiling points.
Here's a free "excuse" from an automotive engineer; when it's cold out, once you've had the coolant temperature up for a couple of miles, start leaning on the gas pedal a little harder. The added load of some aggressive accelerating will help put some more heat in the sytem and help get the oil temp up to 100C. Just make sure that you do this after you've changed that oil and after several miles of driving (like half a dozen or more) to get the oil mostly warmed up and thinned out. Go enjoy your car a little more.
Scott
90SM
#54
12-20-2006, 07:23 AM
#55
12-20-2006, 07:34 AM
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#56
12-20-2006, 10:31 AM
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Yep......but remember that this sensor will only work for sure with the OEM gauge. I know it won't work with the SW or Defi gauges.
Next question. I would like to relocate my temp sensor so I can use a Fumoto drain valve. Any suggestions as to the best place? Maybe tapping the pan in an out of the way loacation?
Next question. I would like to relocate my temp sensor so I can use a Fumoto drain valve. Any suggestions as to the best place? Maybe tapping the pan in an out of the way loacation?
#57
12-20-2006, 12:30 PM
#58
12-20-2006, 12:47 PM
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Responding to two different posts:
1. To do it right, you really want to have someone weld another boss onto the oil pan. Adding a reenforcement panel while doing so would be a good idea. I haven't tried it on a MINI, but just tapping directly into the pan isn't going to give a very strong joint. If too much mass is cantilevered you can also crack the pan. I don't think you want your car to start leaking oil like a tranditional British automobile.
2. All of the oil is not yellow goo, just some of it which will mostly be located in the bottom of the pan and on the underside of the valve cover and fill cap. In addition to testing engines for a living, I have direct personal experience with my own MCS looking exactly like the posted pictures and that was entirely due to EXCESSIVE condensation buildup due to cold air and too low oil temperatures. Under the right conditions, an engine can create an incredible amount of water.
Scott
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1. To do it right, you really want to have someone weld another boss onto the oil pan. Adding a reenforcement panel while doing so would be a good idea. I haven't tried it on a MINI, but just tapping directly into the pan isn't going to give a very strong joint. If too much mass is cantilevered you can also crack the pan. I don't think you want your car to start leaking oil like a tranditional British automobile.
2. All of the oil is not yellow goo, just some of it which will mostly be located in the bottom of the pan and on the underside of the valve cover and fill cap. In addition to testing engines for a living, I have direct personal experience with my own MCS looking exactly like the posted pictures and that was entirely due to EXCESSIVE condensation buildup due to cold air and too low oil temperatures. Under the right conditions, an engine can create an incredible amount of water.
Scott
90SM
#59
12-20-2006, 01:08 PM
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#60
12-20-2006, 01:31 PM
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So a MINI dealer let him off with just an oil change when they could have made some serious coin off him in terms of a head gasket replacement or a full head replacement?
#61
01-03-2008, 10:00 AM
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#62
01-03-2008, 10:48 AM
...interesting thread.....i might add that full synthetic oil is somewhat resistant to the condensation phenomena....not that condensation won't occur, but it won't manifest itself as the green/mayonaise vomit.....you may want to make sure that the oil in those engines is , in fact, fully synthetic....
#63
01-03-2008, 03:14 PM
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#64
01-04-2008, 04:37 AM
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#65
01-04-2008, 10:40 AM
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Ok so i figured out my situation,.. the last time i changed my oil it was fine,no mustard mucus. when i put in my boost guage i changed the lines to my OCC and blocked off the grey tube.(which wasent blocked before, it feed to the OCC). After about 3 weeks i go to change the oil and whala mustard. So i am going to change the OCC lines back to the way they were originaly and get back to everone with my results.
If you are asking yourself my i messed with the lines to my OCC. It's because the OCC install thread shows it that way.
Now the only two questions i have are:
Could that mustard gunk f-ed up my engine? And
How long will it take for that stuff to break down or go away?
If you are asking yourself my i messed with the lines to my OCC. It's because the OCC install thread shows it that way.
Now the only two questions i have are:
Could that mustard gunk f-ed up my engine? And
How long will it take for that stuff to break down or go away?
#66
01-04-2008, 01:50 PM
I agree with the others- you can see a film like that if it's condensation from having not driven the car far enough to warm it up but there's a fair amount there - seeing a leaky head gasket before (coolant into oil) and the result was similar. And as others have said, even if not leaking that oil probably isn't doing it's full proper job.
If you take it for a longish drive and it goes away, that's some message.
Get it checked
#67
01-04-2008, 02:53 PM
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Ok so i figured out my situation,.. the last time i changed my oil it was fine,no mustard mucus. when i put in my boost guage i changed the lines to my OCC and blocked off the grey tube.(which wasent blocked before, it feed to the OCC). After about 3 weeks i go to change the oil and whala mustard. So i am going to change the OCC lines back to the way they were originaly and get back to everone with my results.
If you are asking yourself my i messed with the lines to my OCC. It's because the OCC install thread shows it that way.
Now the only two questions i have are:
Could that mustard gunk f-ed up my engine? And
How long will it take for that stuff to break down or go away?
If you are asking yourself my i messed with the lines to my OCC. It's because the OCC install thread shows it that way.
Now the only two questions i have are:
Could that mustard gunk f-ed up my engine? And
How long will it take for that stuff to break down or go away?
When I had my "mustard" oil problem I just changed the oil to be safe.....I have no idea if it is being adversely effected or not.
#68
01-04-2008, 07:33 PM
i haven't heard it asked how far you drive to work or how often you drive it . but that looks like waaaaaay too much shake and no fries . get the pressure test done ; but bring it to someone who's familiar with minis . sometimes pressurizing the system with the tool isnt needed , simply starting it and observing the car come up to temp and reving it will show the combustion effecting the gauge , it'll shake .
#69
01-07-2008, 09:54 AM
another key to a blown head gasket is that yr exhaust will be white on start-up, and have an ungodly sulfuric smell as well.
I concur this is a blown head gasket. the mild foamy condensation one gets with a vehicle that hasnt been driven much does not look like this--and Ive been thru 2 HGs on my Toyota PU.
Get it towed to yr dealer asap. driving with this condition is not advised; a HG or head is much cheaper to replace than an entire engine....
I concur this is a blown head gasket. the mild foamy condensation one gets with a vehicle that hasnt been driven much does not look like this--and Ive been thru 2 HGs on my Toyota PU.
Get it towed to yr dealer asap. driving with this condition is not advised; a HG or head is much cheaper to replace than an entire engine....
#70
01-08-2008, 10:34 AM
Panic - Don't !
This condition is nothing new to the R-53 Supercharged engine with an OCC especially if the gray line for the PVC valve is blocked according to Alta directions of years back. It has led me to take drastic measures and remove the darn thing ( OCC ). It is just a water vapor collector in the winter months with short drives.
Question: I know the original lines connect from the gray line to the pvc valve with a factory 90 bend hose. Where do you plumb the oil fill hose side to on an Alta CAI system ??
Looking to do this after draining the can for the third time this winter.
Thanks.
Question: I know the original lines connect from the gray line to the pvc valve with a factory 90 bend hose. Where do you plumb the oil fill hose side to on an Alta CAI system ??
Looking to do this after draining the can for the third time this winter.
Thanks.
#71
01-08-2008, 05:26 PM
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I've been working on autos for 30 + years, rebuilt many engines (English, Japanese, German, and a multitude of American) during that time. What you are looking at under the oil fill cap and inside the valve cover, to that degree, is cause by wayyyyy too much water mixing in with the oil. I bet if you look at the dipstick you will see the same...that is NOT merely condensation! That is the result of either 1) a blown head gasket, 2) a cracked block, or 3) a warped head. None of which will necessarily cause the exhaust to look like "The Fog" if it is in its early stages or if it is not leaking directly into the cylinders and trying to combust. I bet this "mustard" is in the oil filter too.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS VEHICLE! Have your MINI towed or trailered to the nearest dealer for further examination and impending repair.
This sticky mixture will continue to get worse the longer you run the MINI's engine. This "mustard" will begin to (if it hasn't already) clog every oil passage in the engine and oil circulation will cease, and this will result in an engine seizure and will likely require you buy a new motor (approximately $8,000 +) due to severely scored cylinder walls and crank jounals, spun crank bearing(s), and possibly a contaminated cooling system.
Unless someone else on this thread is an actual professional mechanic, or is willing to assume full financial responsibility for their advice to continue driving this MINI, I would get it to the dealer. You are flirting with disaster here. 
DO NOT DRIVE THIS VEHICLE! Have your MINI towed or trailered to the nearest dealer for further examination and impending repair.
This sticky mixture will continue to get worse the longer you run the MINI's engine. This "mustard" will begin to (if it hasn't already) clog every oil passage in the engine and oil circulation will cease, and this will result in an engine seizure and will likely require you buy a new motor (approximately $8,000 +) due to severely scored cylinder walls and crank jounals, spun crank bearing(s), and possibly a contaminated cooling system.
Unless someone else on this thread is an actual professional mechanic, or is willing to assume full financial responsibility for their advice to continue driving this MINI, I would get it to the dealer. You are flirting with disaster here.
Last edited by lawmann; 01-08-2008 at 05:29 PM.
#72
01-08-2008, 06:25 PM
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#73
01-08-2008, 06:40 PM
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MiniStupidFun explained what his issue was on his car (I am not saying that it is the issue with ever car). The change he made to the Oil Catch Can was the cause. He switched it back, changed the oil twice and the issue cleared up completely.
And yes he brought it to a mini dealer and they told him it was a warped head or blown head gasket.
And yes he brought it to a mini dealer and they told him it was a warped head or blown head gasket.
Last edited by jeffc; 01-08-2008 at 06:56 PM.
#74
01-08-2008, 07:07 PM
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This condition is nothing new to the R-53 Supercharged engine with an OCC especially if the gray line for the PVC valve is blocked according to Alta directions of years back. It has led me to take drastic measures and remove the darn thing ( OCC ). It is just a water vapor collector in the winter months with short drives.
Question: I know the original lines connect from the gray line to the pvc valve with a factory 90 bend hose. Where do you plumb the oil fill hose side to on an Alta CAI system ??
Looking to do this after draining the can for the third time this winter.
Thanks.
Question: I know the original lines connect from the gray line to the pvc valve with a factory 90 bend hose. Where do you plumb the oil fill hose side to on an Alta CAI system ??
Looking to do this after draining the can for the third time this winter.
Thanks.
#75
01-08-2008, 07:09 PM
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I've been working on autos for 30 + years, rebuilt many engines (English, Japanese, German, and a multitude of American) during that time. What you are looking at under the oil fill cap and inside the valve cover, to that degree, is cause by wayyyyy too much water mixing in with the oil. I bet if you look at the dipstick you will see the same...that is NOT merely condensation! That is the result of either 1) a blown head gasket, 2) a cracked block, or 3) a warped head. None of which will necessarily cause the exhaust to look like "The Fog" if it is in its early stages or if it is not leaking directly into the cylinders and trying to combust. I bet this "mustard" is in the oil filter too.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS VEHICLE! Have your MINI towed or trailered to the nearest dealer for further examination and impending repair.
This sticky mixture will continue to get worse the longer you run the MINI's engine. This "mustard" will begin to (if it hasn't already) clog every oil passage in the engine and oil circulation will cease, and this will result in an engine seizure and will likely require you buy a new motor (approximately $8,000 +) due to severely scored cylinder walls and crank jounals, spun crank bearing(s), and possibly a contaminated cooling system.
Unless someone else on this thread is an actual professional mechanic, or is willing to assume full financial responsibility for their advice to continue driving this MINI, I would get it to the dealer. You are flirting with disaster here.
DO NOT DRIVE THIS VEHICLE! Have your MINI towed or trailered to the nearest dealer for further examination and impending repair.
This sticky mixture will continue to get worse the longer you run the MINI's engine. This "mustard" will begin to (if it hasn't already) clog every oil passage in the engine and oil circulation will cease, and this will result in an engine seizure and will likely require you buy a new motor (approximately $8,000 +) due to severely scored cylinder walls and crank jounals, spun crank bearing(s), and possibly a contaminated cooling system.
Unless someone else on this thread is an actual professional mechanic, or is willing to assume full financial responsibility for their advice to continue driving this MINI, I would get it to the dealer. You are flirting with disaster here.