Hey keep us posted!

 

Actually, I have no idea what's going on. I met with the regional guy on Wednesday and he seems pretty convinced it's just the clutch and very "fixable." But, they won't know until they "tear it down." I asked about them fixing it again, but next month it's back for another tranny/clutch issue and all I got was "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it."

Seeing as how it is now Saturday and I have yet to hear from anyone since it was dropped off, I'm betting it isn't just the clutch (which is what I thought from the beginning).

Sorry I haven't posted sooner, but I've been down with a stomach flu since Thursday. I'm sure being stressed out over my car didn't help.

 

I sit before you absolutely astounded. I spoke with my service advisor this morning and she informed me that they have ordered a FOURTH transmission and a "different" clutch for Mary, but didn't elaborate. I can't believe that MINI actually thinks this is a good idea!

 

wow 4 trans in total! I cant believe that, have you asked them to buy back the mini or just downright get you a new one? I feel for you, I hope perhaps this time it gets sorted, but the Lemon law might be looking good otherwise!

 

I can't remember, but it may be the same repair three times without resolution. If so, you got em and will end up with a new car. But it's a state by state deal. The national crew may have forgotten that, or are betting you don't know it, or are just thowing rebuilt after rebuilt at it......

Matt

 

You've got them on 4 or more of the same repairs, or 2 or more on a system that can affect safety. There is also a 30 day total limit on how long they can work on your car in the first 18 months...

Here's the text...

Cal Civ Code § 1793.22 (2004)
§ 1793.22. Reasonable number of attempts to conform vehicle to warranties; Dispute resolution process; Transfer of vehicle

1. This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.
2. It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, one or more of the following occurs:
   1. The same nonconformity results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the nonconformity has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.
   2. The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.
   3. The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraphs (1) and (2). The notification, if required, shall be sent to the address, if any, specified clearly and conspicuously by the manufacturer in the warranty or owner's manual. This presumption shall be a rebuttable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.
3. If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process exists, and the buyer receives timely notification in writing of the availability of that qualified third-party dispute resolution process with a description of its operation and effect, the presumption in subdivision (b) may not be asserted by the buyer until after the buyer has initially resorted to the qualified third-party dispute resolution process as required in subdivision (d). Notification of the availability of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process is not timely if the buyer suffers any prejudice resulting from any delay in giving the notification. If a qualified third-party dispute resolution process does not exist, or if the buyer is dissatisfied with that third-party decision, or if the manufacturer or its agent neglects to promptly fulfill the terms of the qualified third-party dispute resolution process decision after the decision is accepted by the buyer, the buyer may assert the presumption provided in subdivision (b) in an action to enforce the buyer's rights under subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2. The findings and decision of a qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be admissible in evidence in the action without further foundation. Any period of limitation of actions under any federal or California laws with respect to any person shall be extended for a period equal to the number of days between the date a complaint is filed with a third-party dispute resolution process and the date of its decision or the date before which the manufacturer or its agent is required by the decision to fulfill its terms if the decision is accepted by the buyer, whichever occurs later.
4. A qualified third-party dispute resolution process shall be one that does all of the following:
   1. Complies with the minimum requirements of the Federal Trade Commission for informal dispute settlement procedures as set forth in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, as those regulations read on January 1, 1987.
   2. Renders decisions which are binding on the manufacturer if the buyer elects to accept the decision.
   3. Prescribes a reasonable time, not to exceed 30 days after the decision is accepted by the buyer, within which the manufacturer or its agent must fulfill the terms of its decisions.
   4. Provides arbitrators who are assigned to decide disputes with copies of, and instruction in, the provisions of the Federal Trade Commission's regulations in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, and this chapter.
   5. Requires the manufacturer, when the process orders, under the terms of this chapter, either that the nonconforming motor vehicle be replaced if the buyer consents to this remedy or that restitution be made to the buyer, to replace the motor vehicle or make restitution in accordance with paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2.
   6. Provides, at the request of the arbitrator or a majority of the arbitration panel, for an inspection and written report on the condition of a nonconforming motor vehicle, at no cost to the buyer, by an automobile expert who is independent of the manufacturer.
   7. Takes into account, in rendering decisions, all legal and equitable factors, including, but not limited to, the written warranty, the rights and remedies conferred in regulations of the Federal Trade Commission contained in Part 703 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations as those regulations read on January 1, 1987, Division 2 (commencing with Section 2101) of the Commercial Code, this chapter, and any other equitable considerations appropriate in the circumstances. Nothing in this chapter requires that, to be certified as a qualified third-party dispute resolution process pursuant to this section, decisions of the process must consider or provide remedies in the form of awards of punitive damages or multiple damages, under subdivision (c) of Section 1794, or of attorneys' fees under subdivision (d) of Section 1794, or of consequential damages other than as provided in subdivisions (a) and (b) of Section 1794, including, but not limited to, reasonable repair, towing, and rental car costs actually incurred by the buyer.
   8. Requires that no arbitrator deciding a dispute may be a party to the dispute and that no other person, including an employee, agent, or dealer for the manufacturer, may be allowed to participate substantively in the merits of any dispute with the arbitrator unless the buyer is allowed to participate also. Nothing in this subdivision prohibits any member of an arbitration board from deciding a dispute.
   9. Obtains and maintains certification by the Department of Consumer Affairs pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 472) of Division 1 of the Business and Professions Code.
5. For the purposes of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 and this section, the following terms have the following meanings:
   1. "Nonconformity" means a nonconformity which substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the new motor vehicle to the buyer or lessee.
   2. "New motor vehicle" means a new motor vehicle which is used or bought for use primarily for personal, family, or household purposes. "New motor vehicle" includes the chassis, chassis cab, and that portion of a motor home devoted to its propulsion, but does not include any portion designed, used, or maintained primarily for human habitation, a dealer-owned vehicle and a "demonstrator" or other motor vehicle sold with a manufacturer's new car warranty but does not include a motorcycle or a motor vehicle which is not registered under the Vehicle Code because it is to be operated or used exclusively off the highways. A "demonstrator" is a vehicle assigned by a dealer for the purpose of demonstrating qualities and characteristics common to vehicles of the same or similar model and type.
   3. "Motor home" means a vehicular unit built on, or permanently attached to, a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis, chassis cab, or van, which becomes an integral part of the completed vehicle, designed for human habitation for recreational or emergency occupancy.
6.  
   1. Except as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall sell, either at wholesale or retail, lease, or transfer a motor vehicle transferred by a buyer or lessee to a manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2 or a similar statute of any other state, unless the nature of the nonconformity experienced by the original buyer or lessee is clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the prospective buyer, lessee, or transferee, the nonconformity is corrected, and the manufacturer warrants to the new buyer, lessee, or transferee in writing for a period of one year that the motor vehicle is free of that nonconformity.
   2. Except for the requirement that the nature of the nonconformity be disclosed to the transferee, paragraph (1) does not apply to the transfer of a motor vehicle to an educational institution if the purpose of the transfer is to make the motor vehicle available for use in automotive repair courses.

 

In Texas, it's 4 times within the first 12,000 miles or first year, whichever comes first. It's been in for transmission releated issues 5 times including this one, a fact which I pointed out in the letter I sent them asking them to replace the car under the Texas lemon law (and even listed the law in the letter by code number).

But, according to the law here, the maker has the option to try to repair it first. However, this being the "fourth" transmission, if it acts up or dies, then I have them. By then, there won't be a comparable MINI left and they'll have to put me in a car until they can build me an 07....or buy back the car.

Also, and I love this one, the 30 day rule applies here too.....HOWEVER, if they give me a "comparable loaner" those days do NOT count towards the 30 days. Well, I've had a MINI every time, and usually a convertible S. No luck there.

The only thing I can do now is sit back and wait for the inevitable to happen. The one thing that irks me is the lack of communication on their part this time around. Usually, I know what is going on, like what the problem is, what they are planning to do, etc. This time I've had no updates at all. The only reason I know about the 4th tranny and 3rd clutch is because I had to take my husband's MINI in to be worked on and asked about mine while I was there. The extent of the conversation was "we've ordered another transmission and a different kind of clutch." Nothing on what the problem was or anything. Seems a little too secretive to me, but lately I've been getting really suspicious of anything related to my car and MINI.

 

How does a loaner void the 30 day rule? You were without YOUR car and the law doesn't seem to indicate a reset if they give you a loaner (is this a CA v TX difference?). Whether they give you a loaner seems irrelevant to me because you were without the use of your car. Have you got a laywer's opinion re the 30 day rule?

 

I did a boo-boo and thought this was about lemon cars in CA, the texas statute will be different.

Matt

 

It gets better....granted this one isn't MINI's fault. I picked up my husband's MINI yesterday and my SA said she had bad news for me. The fourth tranny was damaged in transport and they've had to order another one. What are the odds?

 

You my friend are the most patient person in the world. I know I would've had a melt down. Just Amazing!!!!

 

Have they been using the same mechanic for all of the work ? Could be that they are missing something.

When I picked up Wensleydale the alarm worked but the "open sunroof and windows" function did not. They sent it over to the tech to fix. The MA came back and said there was some kind of glitch in the software and I could have one or the other and they would try to contact mini for the fix - I took it by the dealer the next day because the alarm didn't work but the sunroof did - the tech was a real genius setting up that one :impatient Pay extra for an alarm that does not work and get a sunroof that opens when I push they button.....new car paranoia.

Anyway, they took it over to another tech and it came back with everything working as promised, the first tech must not have known the fix ? I'm not bashing my dealer, they've been great, just making a point.

Another example- I had a 70 Cougar and when I purchased it, it had a 302 with a C-4 transmission installed by the owner, the car when built had a 351 Cleveland and FMX trans. I drove the car for several months and noticed it never liked to rev past 5000 rpm. One day the manifold gasket blew so I decided while I was doing this to put in a hiperf camshaft. Again the car would not rev past 5000. I finally blew the motor.

I then replaced it with a 351W with C-4 trans, the motor was built as a mild street motor that would rev to 6000. Once it was broken in and I started getting in to it some more I started to see the rpm problem again. To make this story shorter, I had the engine out three times, rebuilt and ported the heads, different intakes, different cams, different carbs, different exhaust, different rear, ignitions etc, I spent over $3000 (lot of money in '88 for a high schooler" trying to work this out. Then one day I was putting the engine back in after going to a solid cam (This sucker is gonna rev dammit !) I was putting the transmission cross brace in, and for the first time I noticed under some grease an "R" which I assumed meant "rear" so I put it in and the transmission did not line up - Huh ? I flipped it the other way and it did - but upon closer examination, it was offset by a few degrees so it was not in line with the driveshaft. What the hell ? A phone call to my more experienced buddy answered the whole deal - The crossbrace was incorrect, it was an FMX brace and I needed the C4 brace. You have to understand, I was young and learning, but even the most experienced speed shops had no idea what was going on, I also worked in my driveway with a jack and some jack stands, not easy to see the few degrees offset.

So a trip to the local junk yard and $25 later, I installed the c4 mount for a perfect fit, fired her up and went out and hit 7400 revs as per the cams claims Never had a problem again, raced it for two years, ran high 12's.

Maybe that is what is going on here ? They're just missing something ? Seems strange that the trans and clutch would keep going out unless something is just out of line.

Good Luck

Mike

 

Yes and no. The tech who is always assigned to work on my car (I'm rather **** and the dealership knows it) is their #1 tech and I've never ever had an issue with anything he's done. But, when the regional guy came out, he said the first thing he was going to check out was the tech's work incase it wasn't installed right, etc. I'm assuming everything checked out since I only heard that they were ordering a whole new tranny and clutch.

On the clutch: I found out what "a different type of clutch" means. Apparently, MINI has redesigned the clutch, so one could assume there was an underlying issue there.

 

I second that.

GBMiniGirl... i'm really sorry to hear about the problems with your MINI. I've been reading about them here and in the production week thread. I haven't spoken up because I don't know anything about lemon laws, etc, but this one just astounds me. I can't believe the dealer or MINI would want you in that car. Even if they fix it for good (which it doesn't sound like they will) you will always be listening to any little sound and wondering...

Maybe I missed it in one of your posts, but have you said to them anything about starting the lemon law process to get their attention? If it were me, I would walk in and tell them that I don't want the car (customized or not), hand them the keys, and tell them that I wasn't leaving until they dealt with the situation while I was there... no emails or phone calls. I would not be patient enough to wait for 2 transmission changes, let alone 4. Of course, I realize there are financial issues for everyone involved so perhaps that's not a realistic answer, but I would be very angry at this point.

I'm sure you've expressed how unhappy you are to them, but it doesn't sound like they are getting it! And please don't take that as criticism... i know they are trying to cover their a##es... i'm just amazed that any new MINI owner should have to go through this and that a car manufacturer would risk the liability of a serious malfunction of this car in the future. It should be clear to anyone involved that it is a Lemon (I hate to say that about anyone's MINI!)

I really hope this works out in your favor and without a lot of red tape. We'll be listening.

Perhaps we should start signing a petition to get you a new MINI.

 

Not sure I would say that the clutch was redesigned for issues, many times they just find a better idea and improve on it, instead of 50,000 miles, now you get 60,000, something like that. I would say that if every Mini's clutch went out at 20,000 miles, then they would need that redesign ! Guess I'm just being the devil's advocate. I am a UAV system's Engineer and we are always trying to improve things, even things that work fine but could benefit from a slight tweak.

In my experience with internet forums you will always have folks with problems and most insist that it is "never their fault" even when the facts are staring them in the face. Granted, there are issues and problems that are for real.

If a guy is out racing his Mini and the clutch starts acting up he goes and runs a search on NAM, finds a clutch beef thread of fellow racers and joins in the b*tch session, suddenly everyone's clutch is a POS. See where I'm going ? You usally won't find anyone starting a thread like "My clutch is the greatest and its in perfect condition cause I pull my trans off just to look at it"

My take on your problem is that there is a fat chance that all those transmissions and clutches are defective, therefore, something is either being installed incorrectly or may be currently installed incorrectly from when the car was first built that is causing some kind of misalignment which leads to the failures.

As for the #1 tech, he is human and may just be missing something, hey, we all make mistakes, the other thing is if he is respected around the shop as the #1 guy, the other guys may seek his advice on the install and be making the same mistake or just missing the problem.

I'm not saying you do not have a lemon and my heart goes out to you and your "sick" little friend (Mini) It just seems to be pointing in the direction of human error because of the installation of so many brand new parts.

In my case, I had the top speed shops in the area helping and no one could figure it out, I'm talking ages of experience, not even my friend who ultimately provided the answer knew that it was the crossmember from the start.

I truly hope that you get this straightend out and are able to start enjoying your purchase.

Read my signature below.......it is very applicable, its from a song about the Wright Brothers.

Mike

 

Been there, done that. If MINI doesn't step up soon, call a lawyer. They will listen to your case and tell you if you can win or not. They will not take the case if you can't. Just don't let so much time pass that you either fall out of the lemon law period or get so frustrated that you don't even want the car anymore. Remember, you bought the car you bought.. not their loaner. You do not have to go through all of this when you paid so much for something that should work right.

I'll be glad to post more or answer questions but I've got to get out the door and to the office.

 

Was hoping to pick Mary up on Friday as we had a club run on Saturday to Waco to meet up with the Dallas group. I'm not sure how to take the reason they gave me for not having her ready: we ran out of transmission fluid. I know these things come pre-filled! How can a dealership run out of transmission fluid?! Shouldn't they have noticed they were low? I'm now being told Tuesday maybe, but probably Wednesday.

While I was there, I did have a conversation with a few of the sales guys about the lemon law and how if this tranny/clutch try doesn't work, MINI doesn't really have a leg to stand on. I've been thinking for a while that there must be something misaligned somewhere for these to keep failing.

mini_dreams, luckily for me, my car is fully paid-for, so it's not like I'm making payments on a car I don't have. That's probably why I'm being more patient than most. I'm sure if I was making payments every month, everytime I wrote that check out, I'd have a conniption.

 

I say you lemon law it. Running out of Trani fluid is just plain stupid, you can get that at Pepboys I am sure. Keep us posted.

 

My SA said that my MINI adventures are worth of Lemony Snicket: one long series of unfortunate events. Here's the story on the tranny fluid:

Every tranny comes in with a sticker label saying what type of fluid to use in it. Yes, they come pre-filled, but they are always a few pumps short. My tranny showed up with a "Use LT4 fluid" sticker. My tech looks at it and says, "What is LT4? We have LT2 and LT3, but I've never seen 4 before!" He asks around and no one else has heard of it either, so he sends off a report to Puma and they come back and tell him to get with Parts and MINI technical. This is basically what went down:

My tech: "What is LT4 and how do I get my hands on some?"

"Just use the BMW LT4...it's the same thing."

"I don't believe I've ever seen any BMW LT4 back here. Hold on. Yeah, we don't have that."

"This IS for a new one, right?"

"It's an 06."

"OH! LT4 is what the 07s are using."

"We don't even have those yet!"

"Yeah, well, use LT3. The tranny is just mislabeled."

So, my 06 tranny is labeled as an 07. Cool. So, they are going to top it off and test it and then check out some A/C compressor issues tomorrow. Should FINALLY have it back by Friday.....before it goes back in another month, I'm sure.

 

^^ O.M.G.

hope it comes back friday working like a mini dream

 

Picked her up today and so far so good. I'm not sure what the official reason behind the tranny failing is or what was actually replaced in the a/c because the paperwork wasn't ready (my SA wasn't there). I'll stop in Monday to get the details.

So, now I'm just going to sit back and play the waiting game. I'm guessing I'll have my answer to whether this latest fix worked by the end of the month.

 

Aka said today at the meeting that the convertables that they are getting are now 2007 models. That might be where you got your tranny?? Since they dont make 2006 models anymore, i bet you got the "new one"

 

I hadn't thought about that being the reason for the labeling, but it makes sense since it's still the same type of tranny. Thanks, Adam! You're so smart!

Connor found the other driving light cover, btw, behind the passenger seat. They apparently take them off before they run it thru the car wash in the back. How it got to the back seat from the floor of the front seat is something else entirely! How fast did they gun it out of the wash? What were they doing? Drying it off?!

 

Hope this one works . . . I think you have suffered enough.

 

i've got my fingers crossed.