What does it take to convert a MINI to run on E85 ethanol?

 

you can get a E85 silverado and trailer it through the twisties...

 

I wonder what is invloved. Such as a deisel that run on cooking oil.

 

I'd know for a fact that it would take fuel injectors that are approximately 30% larger, the replacement of any aluminum parts in the fuel system, and either a reflash of the engine management software or some sort of piggy back fuel management device (such as the SAFC) to make it run reliably on E85

 

It won't take much. Most of the "Flex" vehicles are pretty much like Deviant describes ( with out the piggy back ).
I would not fill my tank with E85, but if I could try a couple of gallons, I'd bet the car would run OK as is.

 

I was under the impression that there is an issue with some rubber (hoses, gasgets). Older cars would have to have all of these items replaced with new, resistant, rubber otherwise they would decay rapidly. Has anyone else heard this?

 

Everything I have read about E85 (Car&Driver, Road and Track, AutoWeek, others) indicate that your car has to be specifically designed to use E85.

This includes (as mentioned) components designed to be resistant to deterioration from the alcohol. Your car might be OK, but it if wasn't you'd be looking at what could be a large repair bill.

Also (again, as mentioned), you need to really increase the amount of fuel injected. The air/gasoline ratio is something like 14.7/1 and alcohol is closer to 10/1 or somewhere in that vicinity.

You should get cooler running with the alcohol but also much poorer mileage. I've read anywhere from 25% - 40% less because of having to run richer.

 

I blend e-85 with my premium, attempting to get up to 10% ethanol which the owner manual allows. E-10 is also available but it has an octane rating of only 89 (midgrade here is octane 88). With 12 gallons of 91 octane gas and 1 gallon of octane 105 E-85 I have more than 91 and less than 105 in my tank.

I haven't lost any gas mileage. With low levels of ethanol there is some sybiotic effect or another which compensates for the reduction in btus per unit volume. Maybe it is the octane and the engine management system. I don't know.

My only concern is with the fuel filler pipe. Any inappropriate rubber near the top of that unit could be attacked. But if worst comes to worst it is an easy repair compared to the complete engine rebuild and fuel system replacement which would happen to an 80's era car filled with E-85,

 

I have been reading about this alot also. This would be pretty cool.
Check this site out. It was pretty interesting, even though it is not a Mini. Maybe we can get some ideas from them.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341

 

Thank you Casper. Great link.
This is the kind of thing that will dispell the E85 preceptions, myths.... The SC Mini will love E85 as any blower car would... Smaller pulleys, bigger injectors, more power. What's not to like?
In the old days, useing meth, 2 teaspoons of castor per gallon would keep the corosion in check. E85 is not even close to meth as far as corosion.
If I could buy a couple of gallons, E85, I'd put some in my car in a hart beat.
I'll bet there some people on this site that have had some experience with alcohol, fuel injected, blower cars.

 

I cannot forsee putting an 85 octane fuel in my S with a pulley and cold plugs, no matter the alcohol content. The octane is low and I want my car making the power it should. I also note that since my Webb pulley and cold plugs upgrade my gas mileage has gone from around 20.1 to close to 22. I am sure this is a result of the running more efficiently with the upgraded pieces.

 

Amorican,

Actually E85 has an octane rating of 100 to 105. E85 refers to the percentage ethanol (85%) and gasoline (15%).

 

I thought the killer for the engine and fuel delivery system was the water contained in the alcohol, not so much the alcohol itself, but I don't know... Can that stuff actually be more apt to eat up rubber than gasoline?

 

I think E85 would be great on a performance aspect. If tuned properly, our engines may run great on it. The engine would run cooler and the higher octane rating would be great. We would need larger injectors, plugs. Wouldn't it be better to use hotter plugs with E85? Does ethanol needs more heat to burn better? Our MPG may go down just a little but not much, and once ethanol supplies go up the prices should go down. Since the change over to 10% ethanol in our gasoline, ethanol prices are almost as much as gasoline. The prices may go down after ethanol production goes up. I am not sure if I am thinking correct, but I just thought I would share my thoughts.

 

Prices may go down in the short term but only until the government stops subsidizing ethanol production. Without government assistance, a gallon of ethanol is actually a couple of dollars a gallon more than a gallon of gasoline.

 

wats it take to get one of those "Carpool Lane OK" stickers? =P

 

Hmmm.....a lobotomy for starters!

 

How much does it cost to produce ethanol? Wont we become more efficient at producing it our time? Will ethanol be able to sustain itself now because of the new demands (via 10% ethanol in our gasoline)?



I live in Hawaii and we have large sugar can fields. Wouldn't it be cheaper to produce ethanol locally instead of importing it? This can help keep money in Hawaii and will help our economy. I think it is healthy to talk about alternative fuels even if they end up not working. I don't want to say it just won’t work without trying or dreaming a little.

 

Morris,
Thanks for the correction. I guess I am used to numbers on gas having the same meaning.
So E85 is bad to use because it burns too hot?

 

I thought E85 burns colder than Gasoline.

 

My understanding is that it burns cooler because you have to run richer. More fuel = cooler combustion chamber, or something like that. It also means 20-25% less mileage, which equates to less range/filling the tank more often.

Biggest issues are compatibility with all the fuel lines, gaskets, etc. Your car has to be designed to handle ethanol, although I think I have read that most cars built in the last 20 years or so can handle up to about 10%. The Amoco station I use has stickers on all the pumps that the gas may contain up to 10% ethanol.

This month's CarandDriver (July issue) has an interesting article on ethanol and all the advantages/disadvantages. Good reading if you'd like to learn more.

 

I will check out the Road&Track article. Do you have a link? I am sure I can find it though.


I was reading this a few minutes ago. I didn't finish reading it but it looks interesting.

http://www.ethanolacrossamerica.net/...culum93003.pdf

 

Actually, the ethanol story is in Car and Driver's July issue, page 112. Sorry for the incorrect reference.

 

One advantage of E85, is distribution. It can be made almost anywhere and made from many farm subsidized crops. Should the government keep these subsidies? [FONT='Times New Roman']Absolutely. I don't know how much they are making per gallon ( gas ) now but it's quite a bit. Its time we get something back other than lip dirt.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman']Is a 10% mix a political number? Might be. Gasoline will eat through fuel lines given time, just like alcohol. Without an engeneer that is or has been involved with "Flex Fuel" it is hard to speculate on what changes were made for E85. [/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman']When my son started racing go karts I built many Briggs engines. They all ran alcohol. To adapt them to run meth, higher compression ( not much ), bigger jets ( weather dependant ) and that's about it ( less the hours of BP ). These engines are made for lawn mowers & they should have never been used for raceing, flat head, no cross flow, pot metal with a steel liner. After each race day you would need to run a little gas through it to keep corrosion in check. Sounds a little like E85 only backwards.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman']That said, I do believe that some emission & ECU work has been done for "flex fuel" but untill these changes are for public viewing, it's hard to speculate on exactly what has been done. For sure these changes don't cost the manufactures much.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman'][/FONT]

 

yeah, right now, ethanol isn't a really practical means of solving the energy crunch, as clean methods (at least thermodynamically reasonable) of producing ethanol don't exist yet. A lot of energy goes into making ehtanol, in the form of farm machines which have to run on something. The car and driver article is an excellent analysis, although it ignores the fact that a SLIGHT reduction in production costs, and SLIGHT increases in efficiency can tip tha balance quickly, we're just not there yet. And don't get me started on the stupidity of farm subsidies, although at least we're not as stupid as the EU's farm subsisdy policies are. . .

sounds great, but in reality, its a ways off from being a viable solution

and DON'T try and convert your MCS to E85, you'll lose power, mileage, and probably end up breaking something. Respect the BMW engineers, if E85 were such a great idea for our car, they would have thought of it. . .