Does anyone know how to adjust gas and brake pedals for better heel-and-toeing? Actually I find the gap between gas and brake pedals in the OEM setup is HUGH. Has anyone gone to a better set of aftermarket pedals for track use?

 

Anybody

 

i noticed the same problem just before my first track day. i haven't solved the problem yet, but the pedals on ultimatepedals.com look sweet.

 

Wear wider shoes!

I've got size 12 wide feet and my driving shoes (thin soled tennis shoes) give me great feel but can make Heel-toe more difficult than when I'm wearing some of my hard-soled leather dress shoes.

 

What is this "heel-toe" you speak of?

 

It's when you jab the throttle to match revs when downshifting while braking at the same time. It can be learned but is not the easiest thing to do smoothly. Im still trying to perfect it on my MINI...had it down pat on my old car (BMW)

 

Heel-toe shifting referrs to a method for downshifting smoothly while braking.

When you downshift, it makes things much smoother if you can match the engine speed to the transmission speed before lifting off of the clutch. You do this by 'bliping' the throttle, which is really just giving a little poke on the gas to raise the engine revs. a bit.

Here's an example:

1. You are driving down a road in 3rd gear at about 40 MPH at 3000 RPM
2. You decide to slow down for a traffic light ahead
3. You push down on the clutch
4. You shift down into 2nd
5. You 'blip' the throttle (poke the gas) to raise the engine speed to 4000 RPM
6. You release the clutch
7. You enjoy the envy of your friends as they wish that they could execute such a smooth downshift.

If you just downshift and release the clutch, the engine will take a second to rev up to the new RPM and you will be pushed forward in a jerky movement. Blipping fixes this (if done well).

Heel Toe adds the complexity of braking while doing the above maneuver... so now you are slowing the car with engine braking and the use of your brakes at the same time. It looks something like:

1. You are driving down a road in 3rd gear at about 40 MPH at 3000 RPM
2. You decide to slow down for a traffic light ahead
3. You step on the brake with the ball of your right foot
4. You push down on the clutch (still braking w/ the ball of your right foot)
5. You shift down into 2nd (still braking w/ the ball of your right foot)
6. You 'blip' the throttle (poke the gas) to raise the engine speed to 4000 RPM - (still braking w/ the ball of your right foot... you use the pinky toe of your right foot to blip the throttle)
7. You release the clutch (still braking with the ball of your right foot)
8. You are now slowing the car with both the engine AND your brakes
9. You enjoy the envy of your friends as they wish that they could execute such a smooth downshift... if they are even bright enough to figure out what you just did.

 

Here's a "How to learn Heel-toe shifting" article on Motoringfile: http://www.motoringfile.com/2005/07/...ng_made_simple

 

The real fun part is doing all that while double clutching the downshift. When you get it right, you can just throw the shifter into the next gear down without any resistance.

 

whoa!

I better SLOWLY practice that... knowing me I'd do something dumb like blip the brake.

Thanks for explaining all that, I'll give it a try in a parking lot sometime.

 

It's not THAT hard to learn. The first thing you need to get used to is hitting both the brake and gas pedals. To start, just keep the clutch in (or put it in neutral) and put the ball of your foot on the inside of the brake pedal and then roll your foot over to the gas. Practice this when nobody's in front of you as your foot might come off the brake accidentally. After you get the feel of using your foot to modulate both pedals, you can then throw in the blip an shift.

 

Going back to the original topic, I noticed this as soon as I was preping my car for the track day. I wear Puma Race Cats so they are extremely thin and narrow, and the gap was forcing my foot to miss the brake completley or slip off while hard braking. SO I bought a samll piece of alluminum, or diamond plat material bent it to the correct shape and replaced it with the stock sport brake pedal. This allowed me to make the pedal wider. Works awesome now, plus I was able to use the stock moutning location on the pedal.

 

I have size 15 feet, so I cant get too creative down there or I hit wrong pedals lol :(

 

But then of course everyone to his own.

 

I've got big feet. My heel isn't getting anywhere near the throttle unless I'm braking w/ the arch of my foot.

Again, I think that the problem is the shoes. Real driving shoes are just too narrow to work well with the wider spacing (better, IMHO for daily driving) between our brake and gas.

I like the custom petal idea, but I've already got one pair of shoes (cool Italian dress shoes) that will bump the brake petal when I reach for the gas... even if the right side of the shoe is touching the plastic to the right of the gas.

For those thinking of learning how to heel-toe shift... start by learning how to blip the throttle and downshift smoothly while going in a straight line.... then try it with the brake heel-toe... then try it while preparing for and executing a turn (the real fun place to use the technique).

 

I'm fairly comfortable with my heel/toe technique on the street, but everything went pear-shaped this weekend on the track. Turn 7 at Putnam Park is basically a stop sign, and, after repeated hard braking, the brake pedal went closer and closer to the floor, to the point where it was impossible to get any part of my foot on the gas pedal without sending the revs through the roof. I might try to rectify that with a set of Wilwood brake calipers, but that's a pretty expensive "fix".

Anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions?

 

I think Mini's brake and gas pedals are just plain ill configured. Too big of a gap between the two and pedal height is mismatched which makes it very difficult to heel-toe or rolling of the right foot to blip the throttle which on brake. I have experienced many other cars and none is as bad as our Mini.

Yes, larger pedals may help a bit but I think ultimately there has to be a way to bel able to individually adjust the pedal height to get gas and brake to align closer in neutral. Since there is no '06 service manual from Bentley I have idea if it is possible to adjust pedal height. Does anyone have a clue?

 

15 wide here I angle my foot slightly and more adjust where pressure is, I took some time to learn the technique but once you have it down it is second nature, I don't think I've ever seen so many lenghty descriptions on a process that when done right takes maybe 1/2 a second to execute. The MINI has a very good setup already you just need to learn some comfort with it first, if I could adjust them I'd add a tiny bit more mass to the gas pedal (or stiffer spring to make things smoother) and move it ever so slightly closer to the driver but other than that it is a good setup, espically when you make sure you have proper seating position and you are close enough to the pedals.

 

It sounds like you cooked your pads and, even more importantly, your brake fluid. This would account for the low and spongy feel of your brake pedal.

You could go for big brakes, but a much more afordable solution would be to replace the pads (I just did $150 for Hawks HPS) and brake fluid ($20 for ATE Superblue). You could also add in stainless lines ($120) and the Tyrol Sport bushings ($100 ish) for better pedal feel.

Unless you do a TON of track time, the BBK is frequently overkill. Even Randy Webb runs stock rotors and calipers on his race car and just upgraded pads (Hawk Race Pads) and better fluid (I think WMS uses Motul).

 

Actually, agranger, I had brand new greenstuff pads and Motul fluid (new as in 200 miles and about 10 days prior). :-) They weren't fully bedded in the first session and I nearly blew a corner while they finished their little "outgassing" thing, but after that, they were *much* better. And they were immeasurably better than the pads and fluid I had before, which *were* cooked, without a doubt.

 

Actually that's not correct. On either accounts.

The value of any good BBK can be exploited daily. Response, feel, reliable, repeated braking is part of the value. As one customer told me years ago; "I know where my money went everytime I step on the pedal. Can't say that for a lot of parts."

Randy's car is currently sporting a set of TCE/Wilwood 13" brakes with Polymatrix H compound pads. He chose this switch after Vegas and reported much improvement at Sebring as a result.

 

Very cool to know.

The one car I've driven w/ a BBK wasn't that far off of my stock MCS... maybe slightly better, but I wouldn't have paid $1000 for the difference. Perhaps those pads were worn or glazed.

 

The Wilwood kit designed to fit inside 15" wheels is in the neighborhood of a grand. It's a non-trivial amount of money, but if I continue to do track days (a foregone conclusion, really), I'm going to have to spring for it, just to attain more confidence.

Sorry, didn't intend to hijack this thread into the pros/cons of an aftermarket brake kit. :-)

 

Back to the discussion at hand!

I just spotte these custom pedals: $110 + extra for the options, but they are fully customizable (finish, transmission, cut, materials, grippy rubber studs and SHAPE FOR HEEL-TOE). They have several shape options for the gas pedal... stock size, left side extension (all the way down the left), top left extension (for folks like me who use their toe on the gas), top lower extension (for folks who use their heel on the gas like someone mentioned above, but I still can't imagine it... maybe my feet are just way huge).

http://www.bimmian.info/mn

 

Dang, I don't think I'm ready to drop $255 for pedals. ; )