No question. I'd still like to hear the exact cause from BMW.

 

me too.

 

This is true of many laws especially federal laws. It is often a trick of congress. Pass a law that makes it look like congress is doing something to protect the people but then give no teeth to the law.

This is also true of the fair debt collection practices act and the fair credit reporting act and others laws designed to protect the consumer.

Most of these Federal laws provide for some statutory damages amount of $500 since damages are often difficult to demonstrate. But no decent lawyer is going to take on any kind of litigation for $500. The only way these laws get anywhere is through class action or enforcement by a government agency or attorney general.

Of course class actions mostly benefit the lawyers although they do serve as a deterrent to the offenders. Reliance on government agencies or attorney generals is a political trap. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not.

Successful private lawsuit/enforcement is extremely rare.

The best weapon of the consumer is public forum like this one and the press. Unfortunately, in this case, I think the number of people that mod cars is too much of a minority to have much impact on public awareness.

 

Chows -

It was both issues - a little billet doux from Mini if you will.......

 

Thank You for clearing that up for everone

Just think about that Lotus about now ... sweet.

 

Chows -

I wouldn't call them causes, I would call them excuses. If the MM Act was a little more consumer friendly, BMW should be held to diagnosing the harness per the procedures outlined in their own TSB.

Regardless, here is their reasoning.......

An aftermarket mod represents work performed on a car by someone other than an authorized BMW representative. In their eyes, the simple act of adding a CAI could result in damage to the nearby DME, the wiring harness, the ozone layer, the New Orleans levee system, etc.

Second, tracking or autocrossing the car exposes the car to conditions that exceed those that the vehicle was designed for and that these conditions exceed those that the warranty is intended to cover.

Interestingly enough, Mini offered to diagnose the car only after it had been retuned to 100% stock - figure out that logic........

While money and time were not initially issues, they quickly became so. Keep in mind that the car is a toy, so it being sidelined affects me very little, and while the lawyers are those retained by a firm I am an owner of, for ethical reasons, I have paid every dime billed to me.

As weeks turned into months I realized that I would rather spend the time and money on people I care about and positive things rather than an issue that frankly p**sed me off and put me in a bad mood. The amount of stress and time an issue like this takes is not worth the price of the stupid repair.

My old man has a saying - I'd rather be happy than right. In his mind, that saying refers to arguing with my mother. I can stretch it to apply to this issue just as easily.

 

I think many of us should thank you for explaining this to all of us. So often I hear ... threaten them with MM. Not so easy ...

Let it go now, get the blood pressure down ... not worth it. Stress aint worth anybody's health.

Think about the other goodies out there

 

I wonder if Mini USA or BMW reads this stuff and sees how many of thier enthusiastic following are less enthusiastic now. Too bad really, but once again, large companies can pretty much to what they will, and even affluent individuals can't gain the supposed protection that the law is there (in theory) to provide.

Anyway, one recourse is to drive the snot out of your car, and leave the warranty long behind.

It's also interesting to see the attitude of other car companies. I have no idea how Ford is on warranties, but for aftermarket parts suppliers, many get access to Ford CAD drawings so they can design the aftermarket parts to fit but good! I guess they realize the modder crowd brings in lots of sales.

Matt

 

The guy with the gold makes the rule!

And they have a lot more gold than we do.

Sad, but true.

Protecting the market so corporations can make more profits! Our government at work!

Matt

 

I think any atty not trying to just "churn" fees would have advised of the futility of litigation in Federal Courts to recoup the $ for a few hundred dollars of repairs. Now if you want to negotiate with BMW that's a different matter, some attys are better than others at making the deal if they understand how to make the others side waste their time and money when they could just make a call and settle things. Never threaten litigation without looking into the facts of what that will involve. These guys know you're bluffing and will call you every time. They are employees of BMW, if they are on retainer they probably look forward to getting threatened, that way they can run up their fees. You probably would have more luck touching base with a BMW manager who realizes this and might approve the repair cost to end the thing.

 

I doubt if it matters one bit as long as there is a waiting list and the majority of their cars are pre-sold as orders from the factory. Quite an amazing marketing position to be in and quite a revolution in the car buying process, in itself. Just in time marketing, saves bundles of money in the manufacturing, materials and distribution sectors, really.

 

My lawyer was very up front. It is the general consensus that proceding with the lawsuit pushes you out of the 90% who make noise but don't follow through.

Let's get this straight, the odds were that I would have won - I just decided it wasn't worth the time or the money.

In the end, the odds also favored me rcouping the legal fees.

Using the word futile in this context denotes my case was hopeless. It was only futile in the sense that the law is set up to make prosecution difficult to the consumer.

Tried it - did not work. Why do you think this has been going on for six months?

BMW will not budge once they get involved. Most people who have had any sort of luck did so because they kept the dealership in it. Once you get the gorilla involved, compromise becomes impossible.

With all due respect, spend six months dealing with BMW and then post back here. There were no threats - we proceded. There was no bluff - we proceded. BMW has a private firm who guards their legal interests here in the US and they earn their bucks.

Better yet, why don't I ship my car to you in sunny Florida and you can show me how easy it is to deal with a local Manager/Dealer? Understand that warranty fees are recouped from manufacturer. Ask your local service manager what happens to them if BMW catches them making repairs to a modded car.....

I don't expect you to read every post on this thread so I'll wrap it up with this....

1. Once BMW gets involved - you're screwed. They know if they let one of these cases go, it will encourage tens more. They have more money than you, and can wait longer than you.

2. The MM Act is set up to discourage the consumer. It takes way too long and costs way too much money. It also entails the potential non-use of the vehicle in question for an extended period of time.

3. The decision to call off was mine alone. It wasn't done because I was wrong or because I was worried about losing. At a certain point my personal time has value too - and I rank it higher than a freaking wiring harness.

4. If you race or mod your car, and BMW (not the dealer) finds out, you can join me on the "list". It appears my VIN has been tagged in some way.

 

Our company has a fleet of hundreds of Ford and Chevy work trucks.

A lot of the Superintendents and Foreman add aftermarket exhausts, intakes, etc. We have never had one issue. Not one.

 

Ford and Chevy have a long history of working with aftermarket companies - even selling aftermarket products through their parts distribution system. With BMW, I am wondering if their marketing success has given them a case of arrogance. The moment they start to think that they s**t strawberry ice cream, is the beginning of the end. Roger Smith had a terminal case of thinking that he s**ted strawberry ice cream and GM has never recovered from it.

 

Ford and Chevy also deal with a different clientele. . What keeps them afloat tradtiionally have been their truck lines.

The trades are a very close knit society. If it became known that either manufacturer was busting the hump of working men over CAIs, headers, etc. it would be bad.

Before the revamped Rams came out (1994?) Dodge was literally blackballed from the trades despite the use of the Cummins Turbo-Diesels. Why? Well, they had known tranny problems that they began blaming on the aftermarket components.

I remember going to an AGC meeting in the late 80's where it was roundly discussed how Dodge was screwing over the industry.

Despite an excellent product today, you rarely see Dodge trucks as the backbone of the construction or service industries, I truly believe they never recovered from the earlier rep they got from the trades.......

 

This sounds like a distinction without a difference.... BMW decided to void the warranty. Period. Whether the warranty voiding decision was due to an aftermarket modification or the car being tracked or even both, matters not one little bit in regard to the worthlessness of M-M. If you are going to rely on M-M to force the issue with any manufacturer, you have an uphill battle because the manufacturer has more resources that it can deploy in the fight. Skiploder didn't post what the law firm may have given him as an estimate to get to a verdict, but it isn't cheap in California. A reasonably simple case can easily run north of $100,000 for just the trial outcome. Then you have to figure on the cost of the apeal, because there will be an apeal.

The Cliff Notes version of this thread is that if you think that M-M is a viable tool to force a manufacturer to honor its warranty obligations, you better be prepared to put serious cash on the line. And, personally for a MINI, 100 large is just not worth it. I have dropped cash on litigation, but it was over a business survival issue, not over who was going to pay for a $1,000 vehicle repair.

 

Have I read this thread wrong? Did you get anything out of this? You say you are blackballed or something because of your modded car. You abandoned the lawsuit because it wasn't worth the time or money of you or your attys. Your Dealer never capitulated and neither did BMW/MINI. That's a long way from "sticking a big fat hairy thumb in their eye." Sorry I look for solutions to problems that work and stay away from "pie in the sky" and away from "I am STILL RIGHT, even when I lose in everything" attitudes. Sorry it seems the practical solution that works is still don't MOD or race your MINI car until after the warranty runs out, or don't count on being successful in warranty claims.

P.S. I think if you "track" a street car all bets should be off, actually. I always believe "if you play you pay". These days we have folks taking financed vehicles to the track, that's CRAZY.

 

Skiploder-

Just found this thread and I admire your ability to walk away. Your blood pressure will be all the better for it. Ce la Gere? Your story has proven to me the worthlesness of the MM Act. It has always struck me odd what with the herculean strength of the automotive industry lobbyists that the MM Act would be anything but a tool for the industry and not the consumer. I think your story should be required reading for the modding kids who feel the MM act is the proverbial Holy Cross to the vampiric Manufacturers ("Walk into the dealership with a copy of the MM Act heald high in hand and watch them cringe in pain and horror"). Buyer Beware.

Again, sorry for your aggravation but when reviewing my limited time and means , and paramount need for having reliable transportation, you have helped me conclude to stay away from anything more than basic cosmetic modifications.

 

Well, there is another solution if you want to increase the performance of the MINI - JCW parts. They are more expensive (and don't necessarily provide the same increased performance as other aftermarket parts), but they do have the factory warranty coverage.

Are you proposing that street racing is okay???? If a car is advertised as a performance car (there is a board in S.F. that shows a MINI Cooper on what is a lifesize (relative to the MINI) slot car track - a rather clear statement about the handling capability of the MINI...), shouldn't the car's owner be able to experience the performance capability of the car???? If, so the only really safe place to realize the performance capability of the car is the track....

 

Maybe.

Financially no, but I also chose to walk away. I don't need a lawsuit to tell me that BMW is wrong - their own TSB confirms that the issue would have happended with or without mods.

In terms of experience, I got quite a lot out of it.

Anyone who mods their car runs this risk. Your VIN will or has been tagged.

Agreed!

But I have bought several BMW products over the years, as have other members of my family. It will cost me $1,200.00 to fix my harness. BMW will never sell a car to anyone in my family again.

Again, I am out $1,200.00. I lost money. BMW is still wrong and maybe a few people on this Forum can learn a lesson here.

If you knew this prior to this thread, you had the proper perspective way before I did. If not, see my comment above about people learning something from the thread.

People who have kept their cars stock, JCW or otherwise, need to understand this. Keeping your car mod free will not keep you safe if you race.

 

Good luck to you Skiploder. I'll follow this with interest. Please keep us posted on the latest.

 

Skiploder, out of curiousity, it appears as if you have sorted out your MINI quite well. Apart from the bile you feel toward BMW/MINI (and I fully agree with how you feel), why not just enjoy the car? Afterall, you did get the car to enjoy it....

 

Time for a little counterpoint.

Magnus-Moss is generaly nothing more than a disclosure law. It's purpose is to make sure that people know what they are getting whenever they buy a product that has a written warranty. The law generally does not tell manufacturers what they should warrant or for how long or what restrictions and disclaimers thet can put on their warranties. The exception to that is that the law does not allow manufacturers to void warranties based on the use of parts manufactured by other manufacturers or to require that service be done by certain persons such as the MINI dealer.

I read my warranty. It clearly states that "improper" use voids a warranty and use in any competitive event voids the warranty. Nothing in Magnuson-Moss prevents them from having this provision. So it seems clear to me that any that track are at risk of voiding a warranty. That is if MINI has any reason to know of that use.

When it comes to mods to a MINI, it is perhaps a little less clear. The law does not allow them to restrict use of aftermarket parts but they can restrict use of anything that changes the performance and use of the vehicle. Of course that is exactly what the MINI warranty does.

There is a difference between how the MINI warranty treats competive use and use of mods. Use of mods simply results in that they will not warrant parts related to those mods. Competitive driving results in a flat and total voiding of the entire warranty.

 

Never have supported street racing and I have a perverse interest in keeping my vehicles showroom stock until warranty expires or even subsequent to. I think if someone wants to race they should have a paid for vehicle and not count on making warranty claims. Actual go-karts come to mind, open wheel or stock cars, SCCA, drags, on and off road bike racing. I think it's a poor idea to race or track your street vehicles. It voids your insurance and your finance agreements as well and IT SHOULD. The only security interest a financer has is your vehicle and people think it's OK to chance trashing that entire interest in a track or even street race. Same reason you can't take financed vehicles south of the border without voiding the agreement.. Things happen, why should anyone but the person who takes the risk be made to pay for it, eh?

 

Okay; are you prepared to drop north of 100 large to attempt to prove your point?