I hear ya, but here is what MINIUSA has to say about owner's that choose not to get the software update done:

"Failure to have this free repair work performed could be determined as lack of proper maintenance of your vehicle and could jeopardize your full protection under the emissions warranty provisions."

Given this, I had it done on both of our MINIs, no problems so far. I don't want to give MINIUSA and my dealers any excuses should a warranty related issue arises in the future.

This is not about a driveability problem, but an emissions problem. My MCS was running great with V36, but I had it done anyway.

Cheap insurance. If V39 has worked in my MCS, it should work in your '02 MCS as well.

 

Can we dispel the “Bad Gas” theory?

I have worked in gas stations most of my life and I have never seen a problem with a car ever proved to be Bad Gas.

Just do the math. The station that I work at now pumps over 9,000 gallons a day. The average car fills 8 to 10 gallons. That would be over 1,100 cars with the same type problem in one day. By the way the refinery makes a lot more then 9,000 gallons at a time, so multiply that times as many stations that got the same blend.

Now you may have left the gas cap loose, however the Mini has a “Check Gas Cap” light and that should have come on if that code was set

In talking with the Mini team leader at my dealer, he has told me of many strange things after v39 was installed. Some that has nothing to do with the engine.

As for people in California, unless you sell the car, your first Smog Check is not due for 5 years or until almost 2007 for a 2002 car.

I recommend WAIT until this gets sorted out.


Dave

 

SES came on again on the drive home

I'll do that battery disconnect/reconnect thing next. Somebody mentioned a "right way" to do that. What is it please?

I think the people on this thread who have mentioned that it seems BMW are just trying to get us in there to log our mods have got it right. I can see where they wiped off one of my ignition wires to read the words on it better. All duly noted I'm sure. Still strange they didn't list my pulley though. I had honestly made a decision not to go back for anything else from MINI/BMW in the way of service, not even oil changes under warranty. This seals it. Their recall notice got me back in there. So they win I suppose.

Ken

 

Disconnecting the battery will NOT reset the light.

It will just set another code.


Dave

 

[QUOTE=D1JL]Disconnecting the battery will NOT reset the light.

It will just set another code.



Dave, you're just full of good news aren't ya?

Okay, so any ideas on getting rid of the damn light?

Ken

 

You must find out what the code is. This requires a scan tool.

Even some discount auto parts stores will test this for free.
With the code we will know what to fix.


Dave

 

Okay would that be the notation on my paperwork that they gave me:

"Faults PO420 Cat. Converter bank 1 efficiency below threshold. Has aftermarket header pipes, muffler, spark plug wires and air intake system"

Is that P0420 the code?

MGCMAN mentioned replacing the oxygen sensors, maybe that's the answer.

Thanks,

Ken

 

The next to last paragraph on the first page of the emissions recall letter seems to imply that California owners may not be able to renew their registration without getting V39 installed.

 

I stopped by my BMW/MINI Dealer on the way home from yesterday evening. My Dealer is 100% aware of my mods. When I told the Service Manager I would bring the car in on Saturday for the reflash, he subtly hinted that I should wait. He said the first batch of v39 flashed cars had a mixed bag of results.

That makes two dealers admitting there are problems with the new software. My car (knock on wood) runs like a champ. I'll wait until they get this crap sorted out.

 

This is the Cat Efficiency Sensor (O2 sensor) after the Cat is not reading correctly. it could be the sensor or it could be the Cat.


Dave

 

Aftermarket header = OBD1 Cat.

This will turn on the light with that code after a short time (about 3,000 miles).

This is why you can get headers on eBay cheap. Just change the cat to an OBD2 type or use the orignal Mini one. Once the sensor starts reading correctly again, the MIL should reset after 3 complete drive cycles.


Dave

 

on your MCS? which header, CAT. If you drop your exhaust at the flange and look into the CAT if the color inside is white to cream/light tan most likely the cat is okay. Check the 02 sensor wires first before replacing anything to make sure they are OK. Unplug and reconnect the sensor to make sure it is connected securely. Do a lookup on OBD11 codes to see if P0420 is a OBD11 code. Search on google for a list of OBD11 codes they are out there. Knowing the code is important so if that isn't it find a way to get yours scanned so you know what your dealing with.

 

On the "bad gas" theory,

I dont know if this was bad gas or what, but I've had my MCS having heavy ping issue, even in moderate driving. After 2 fillups the ping was gone.

I've also had a Honda with really poor gas mileage one time, on a car that regularly got 30mpg, this one fillup dropped it to like 20-22mpg.

Both times, they were Chevron gas (not at the same station, nor during the same year). I live in Northern California.

With "over 1,100 cars with the same type problem in one day", many of those drivers (a) don't track their mpg, or (b) dont drive their car daily to notice, or (c) baby their car but didnt know what caused their problems, or (d) the gas that is pumped into the station is mixed with what they've got lessening any post-fillup problems, or (e) some other reason

 

"Luckily" for me, I'm out of warranty. So I will definitely not have the software update done. :smile:

 

"Failure to have this free repair work performed could be determined as lack of proper maintenance of your vehicle and could jeopardize your full protection under the emissions warranty provisions"

The way I understand it, the only void warranty is the emission one, NOT the rest of it (i.e. transmission, power steering etc...).
Anybody with some legal background who could confirm the legal meaning of that sentence? (I kissed that warranty good-bye the day I put a new header anyway )
I talked to a few dealers in California today and they weren't quite sure about it, and didn't seem to be aware of the problem from the software upgrade either .
But the consensus was it's my car, I don't have to do the upgrade if I don't want to.

Also, as a side note, I bought my car out of state and had to do a smog check when I first registered in California and passed it with no problem, so I don't see where the big deal is anyway...

 

Two issues here.

There is a big difference bad gas and improper octane; this can cause the “ping”.

Do you buy quality gas? Do you buy from a major brand? Yes, ARCO is a major brand. Did you ever think of all the petroleum products that pass through those big tanks at refineries? Did you ever think of how they clean those big tanks? That’s correct, they use gasoline. Did you ever think of what they do with that “Tank Wash”? That’s right they dilute it with thousands of gallons of clean gas but they don’t sell it under their “Name Brand”. This gas is sold on the “Spot Market” along with millions of gallons to independents. Yes it is still good enough to use in cars, just not MY car.



I never said not to have v39 installed; I just said maybe you should not be in such a hurry to have it installed. Also Mini will not void your warranty, they just may not honor any related claims until it is installed.



I found out just today that the main issue of v39 is to fix a communication error between the car and the smog test computer. Apparently it is not allowing the collection of certain data that California wants. In other words the old software is not 100% OBD2 compliant. I also found out the reported bugs are totally random and does NOT affect all cars and some cars affected have never been “Modified”.


Dave

 

At the very end of a a 400 mile trip on Saturday....two blocks from home..... my '02 MCS engine began sputtering, losing some power and the SES light went on. I had already been noticing some minor symptoms of this over the last month or so....was running on V36 which did solve my stumble problem. The manual told me that the warning had to do with the emissions control system....had already received the recall notice. The car has CAI, ignition system, pulley and GIAC mods. I took it in on Monday and with some trepidation allowed them (really didn't have much choice) to upload v39 because the service manager, who I trust, said that it shouldn't effect the GIAC re-mapping that was done at Helix. The diagnostics found "codes for random multiple misfire", as well as "non-factory coding in the DME".....the GIAC software has officially been exposed and recorded. In any event, it did the trick and so far the car is running better than ever....keeping my fingers crossed!

 

I had v39 uploaded the other day and after I left the dealer I pulled over and restarted the car. Sure enough I got an error... but it was not the one you are all talking about. It had to do with the sensor on my accelerator pedal. They replaced the gas pedal and all is good.

I'm still trying to determine if I notice any difference in the drive with v39. Hopefully I won't.

 

well now THAT is interesting..

 

Ever sense the ability to flash the proms in ECUs it has been not an uncommon thing for dealers to check the programming before working an emission or drivability problem. I see this all the time when cars fail smog check. It may not be the altered program that has caused the problem but it does give the dealer the excuse not to work on the car. None of the dealers that I have ever had to work with have voided any warranty; they only insist on the chip or flash program removal.


Dave

 

Our dealer left the software alone at my request (they did the breather valve recall). Hope they'll do the same at next service, and your tip to remind them is good.

 

Sounds like a bad downstream O2 sensor to me. (The one after the cat converter.) OBD2 requires a downstream O2 sensor, so all cars 96 and later have them. For some reason, the downstream O2 sensors are notorious for short life. I have doagnosed and replaced a bunch of them over the years. Hope this helps.

Rawhyde

 

Check it out, it says aftermarket header pipe. Most aftermaket headers use OBD1 CATS. Of course the downstream O2 could be bad, but I am betting on the CAT.

Dave

 

That may be, but there is still one unpleasant but obvious possibility.

The underground tank at the filling station has to be filled from a truck. The hose that truck uses is the same for each compartment of the truck's tank, and thus, for each grade of fuel it carries. Therefore, aside from color-codes spray-painted on the station's strage tank filler covers, there is nothing to prevent cross-contamination of different-grade fuels. Suppose that, either by accident or by design, the tanker driver fills the "premium" tank at the station with "regular" fuel from the truck. A lot of stations around my area get their fuel shipments at night, and the colors on the filler lids are all but worn off, so the chances of this happening are not too farfetched. If it was accidental, even if the delivery driver did notice they had an "oops moment" , there would be a rather strong motivation to keep hush about it...

If the situation was discovered, correcting the problem would mean pumping out the station's storage tank. If this fuel was then sold, in order to be fair to the consumer, it would have to be labelled as "mixed-grade," or sold as "regular." If it is sold as "regular," in addition to the cost of transferring the fuel to the "regular" tank, the station or shipper would face a loss equal to the per-gallon cost difference between the regular and premium grades, times the number of gallons of premium fuel in the mixed batch. In the DC metro area, difference between regular and premium is about $.15-.20/gal. If the storage tank holds 10,000 gallons, and was half-full when it got topped off, that's 5,000 x .20, or $1000.00! Since most station operators measure profit on fuel sales in terms of pennies per gallon, a mistake of this type could potentially wipe out the net proceeds of days worth of business for a small-volume operator. At .04/gal net profit, a .20/gal loss on that same 5,000 gallons of comingled premium fuel negates the profits on the next 25,000 gallons of fuel the dealer sells!

From a business standpoint, what's the (immoral but) cheap way out? Leave things alone, let the customers pump it out for you. With modern engine control technology, there's negligible risk that it would damage their cars, and if their next fill-up is on a new, pure shipment of fuel, it's a "one-tankful" event for the car owner. The customer chalks it up as a fluke, and will likely keep coming back, never suspecting what's happened. Those 1,100 car owners are most likely never going to talk to one another and connect the dots to see the full picture.

Then, there's the just plain criminal possibility that a "grade switch" is deliberate. If the above numbers are accurate, then selling regular as high-test quintuples per-gallon profit for the dealer...

That said, all of the filling station owners I know are decent people whom I could not imagine engaging in fraud.

Conclusion: the fuel being dispensed might be not be bad or contaminated, but that doesn't mean it's what you paid for when you picked up the "premium" nozzle at the pump. As consumers, we always pay for what we get, but don't always get what we pay for.

The "Bad Gas Hypothesis" still stands.

.:QED

One gas station, one storage tank... and if it's being pumped fast enough, it's all over in a day. Just a little FUD for thought...

 

I forgot to add one thing. There's also nothing to stop an unscrupulous station from mixing or substituting "spot market" fuel with their usual name-brand supply- until they get caught...