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Stock Problems/IssuesDiscussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).
I bought my 09 MCS last spring totally stock with just over 100k on it. After doing a bunch of research, I added a BSH OCC to one PCV line and got block off plugs for the line that connects to the intake manifold. I just cleaned the valves with the walnut shell media and cleaned the intake manifold and IC. My worry is that by blocking off that second PCV that it will cause too much pressure build up in the crankcase and start blowing seals and leaking oil. Do I need to worry about this or not? Should I add a second OCC to that other PCV line?(I know you can't combine the two) Will the one PCV breathe enough that it will be okay? It looked like a fairly common practice but I would like to hear some real life experience to rest my mind! Thanks in advance, looking forward to the info!
im in same place . installed bsh occ plus boost tap works fine and after 500ml driving can is half full unbeliavable how much @&)# it catchs.
dual occ also possible i have picture some guy was selling his kit but i was too late:/
im in same place . installed bsh occ plus boost tap works fine and after 500ml driving can is half full unbeliavable how much @&)# it catchs.
dual occ also possible i have picture some guy was selling his kit but i was too late:/
Half full in 500 miles seems to be a bit extreme I think! Is it all oil or is there a lot of condensation mixed in? How many miles do you have on the car? You may want to do a leakdown test. That sounds like a lot of pressure in the crankcase if it is all oil. I am by no means a professional, just a car guy so I would confirm with someone else but that doesn't seem right. Mine has been on for about 2k miles and I have about 1/2 inch of fluid in the can. My mini is a second vehicle so I don't drive it in the winter, possibly the cold has something to do with your level being where it is.
Any crankcase pressure will be vented through the left side PCV line, to the turbocharger intake, as it does when the engine is under boost with a standard oem PCV set up.
If there is any crankcase pressure building up, then you have a bad head cover.
Cold weather makes the oil catch can fill up pretty fast, I empty it frequently in the winter.
i havent emptied it yet, to check what it looks like but cold weather makes occ fill up fast !
i put brand new engine so now i have like 1800mls on it.
Is there a second line that's blocked? I see the line that runs from the back of valve cover to the intake 1 line. Wheres the other line you capped off?
Think I'm gonna try to run them to one catch can so two lines in two out. Rear pvc to catchcan to intake. Front valve cover to catch can to intake tube. All into one catch can.
People say do the drivers side and not the passenger then they say do passenger only then do drivers side and block passenger. I was thinking just do both maybe catch some oil and not the venting issues people argue about.
So I just finished up running both to one can. Will see how it goes. Just drove it like 10 miles seemed to run a touch better????
I'm no expert, but I believe the passenger side is for when there is vacuum at the intake manifold - that is, no boost/pressure from the turbo...and the driver side is for when there is boost/pressure at the manifold, that is, the turbo is at work forcing more air through the system....
Jaxterra, I thought that your setup would not have worked without some one way valves, but it obviously does...so there is something that I'm not getting....
No go on that two into one can, I noticed the car idled to high around 1K and I didn't like that. So I'm using the can for the intake tube to valve cover. Id like to add a second can but don't have a spot to put it under hood.
I have the pass blocked top and bottom..Drivers side venting to atmosphere...
CC will be installed when arrives....runs much smoother with the two ports pass capped...
pcv system in these engines suck....
One of the better conclusions I have read about a catch can on your cars...
THE BIG R56 COOPER S ( N14 ENGINE) ‘BODGE UP’ CURE FOR STOPPING THE INLET VALVES COKING UP + PROPER CURE.
…………. IF YOU HAVE THIS MODEL READ THIS !
We have recently read through 10 years of threads regarding the problems of the inlet valves coking up, with the associated problems and how people ( Main Peugeot Dealers include I believe) have addressed the problem. I am amazed that so few people understand the importance of the PCV circuit to the inlet manifold, but in particular its importance with a turbocharged engine.
THINGS YOU PROBABLY DO KNOW
-The direct injection system causes much carboning up of the inlet valves
-The engines have pinking/knocking issues ….. The oil re- entering the inlet charge massively reduces the octane causing this. If ignored it can, put holes in pistons.
-An Oil Catch Can (or 2) is a good idea.
THINGS YOU THINK OR HAVE BEEN TOLD ARE THE SOLUTION
-Fit an OCC on the boost side circuit (So far so good)
-Block off the PCV valve circuit back to the inlet manifold…….NO !
It looks to me that even Peugeot have resorted to blanking off this port ( Or at least selling the parts to allow the customer to do it). Here’s the plus sides AND the longer term problems from things you probably didn’t know:-
PLUS SIDES…
– Reduces the carbon build up. ( If used with 1x OCC on the boost circuit).
– Cheap to do.
– A short term fix but the problems are lurking just around the corner.
SO NOW HERE’S WHAT YOU DIDN’T KNOW & THE LONGER TERM PROBLEMS THAT CAN OCCUR.
1) The conventional ‘journal bearing’ turbocharger requires a small negative pressure in the sump/crankcase to assist the gravity oil return back to the sump. Remove the PCV inlet manifold ‘suck’ and the turbochargers oil return rate to the sump slows down, raising the level of oil inside the bearing housing, resulting in the oil internally spilling over and leaking directly into the hot exhaust side (turbine) of the turbocharger. This burns under the ‘almost red hot’ heat of the turbine and exits out of the exhaust pipe as smoke yet is often not easily visible. Normally it is more apparent at idle, overrun or very light throttle. Note in this instance the oil doesn’t burn through the engine internals…It goes straight from the turbo oil feed into the exhaust ….THAT’S THE OILY SMELL YOU GET, WHEN BLOCKING OFF THE PCV TO INLET MANIFOLD.. Very few people even know where the smell is coming from let alone be able to explain why it happens. It won’t happen all the time btw, usually it will be very intermittent…Not great for the Cat either!
2) Blanking off this circuit means ALL the ‘piston blowby’ now vents out the end connection of the rocker cover and back in the turbo inlet pipe. This is where many have put an OCC. This is a good thing, as it catches a good amount of oil/water/fuel contaminants. But here’s where the good bits end . Firstly in putting ALL the breathing /oil separation tasks through one poor little OCC invariably much more will ‘bridge it’ and go into the turbo. The problem is all this oil entering the turbo is very bad for the turbo in more ways than one. Even worse it now goes on from there through the intercooler and coats all the internal cooling fins and tubes with oil reducing its charge air cooling efficiency. Finally, the bulk of this oil and fuel leftovers just collects and stays in the base of the intercooler. This has in effect become your new undesirable ‘Supersize OCC’ ! One other problem being the inlet temps go up and pinking/knock returns.
3) More sludge build up over time in the engine. Put simply you’ve got no venting ‘helping hand’ vacuum suck as you’ve blocked it off
4) Other seals and gaskets more likely to weep/leak over time from increased crankcase pressure.( i.e. No negative pressure situation under normal driving)
5) Throttle angle increases at idle, so possibly codes /dash lights etc. could occur.
OK SO WHATS THE PROPER FIX HERE ?
– The only proper fix is 2 x Oil Catch Cans on independent circuits AND retention of the inlet manifold ‘suck’ to the vacuum OCC circuit.
– Also use ONLY super unleaded fuel, but that’s more to do with the pinking/ piston destruction.
– Change those Spark Plugs once a year or so.
– Fit GTT PowerMist . The Water Methanol mix blasts the oil off the back of the inlet valves like no other. It also increase the octane value by a huge amount and lowers intake temps big time .More expensive this one, but very effective so I thought I would mention it.
WHAT IF I WANT TO RUN JUST ONE OCC TO SAVE COST ETC?
– In short it can never be as good.
– Also fills up twice as fast as 2 cans.
– As stated if you do, just don’t block off that inlet manifold suck.
OK BUT IF I RUN JUST ONE OCC AND DON’T BLOCK THE INLET MANIFOLD OFF, SURELY THE OIL STILL GETS SUCKED IN ON LIGHT THROTTLE VACUUM ?
-Yes it does, you are resolving the problem when on boost though with the one can, so still much better than nothing.
************************************************** *******
The BRAND NEW GTT R56 OIL CATCH CANS, will be available very soon as a set of 2 for ultimate fix, or just a single ‘Boost Circuit’ OCC + GTT special mod to reduce oil getting in on the other circuit during those vacuum situations. In summary with these turbocharged engines we don’t recommend any blocking off as it removes one problem and introduces a whole new set of them.
PS. N18 is different, it uses Valvetronic not closed throttle to control air in to the engine,…So please don’t compare the one PCV hose you see on these to the two you see on the N14 version.
Now In Stock! Vacuum Circuit Oil Catch Can. Meaning this can will collect oil/water/carbon deposits when the engine is on tick over / idle & overrun. Key points:
Unique high quality design
Push-in fittings for ultimate sealing as this can takes negative and positive boost pressure.
Dip stick for measuring catch can content.
Drain plug.
Cradle / holder to mount OCC to engine bay.
Internal baffling & 180 deg. deflectors for ultimate catching.
Complex CNC fittings and clips
Protects engine from coking and detonation.
Colour options
Designed & Made in England!
Kit includes: all fittings, clips, hoses, cradle / fixings and instructions. £169+vat For Ultimate catching we recommend buying our catch cans for both circuits. Fits: Gen 2 Cooper S / JCW N14 Engines Note: Can only be installed in the allocated position with our Cold Ram Induction Kit and possibly other induction kits but we cannot guarantee this. Technical info: These are needed to fully purge the system of oil mist, steam & other contaminants from re-entering the turbo & engine under all driving conditions from idle & part throttle to full throttle & boost. Unfortunately there are so many different types available with opposing and conflicting theories, resulting in much confusion for the consumer. Also the plumbing is often messy & not easy to install for the DIY mechanic. Whether standard or modified, these cars certainly need a good OCC system like no other! Re-mapping for more power and turbo boost without an OCC on this delicate engine, will almost certainly be a recipe for long term disaster. Continual contaminated ‘oil mist’ re-entering the inlet manifold & turbo compressor reduces the fuel octane causing ‘engine killing’ pinking & knock. It also produces much carbon build up on the back of the inlet valves which is a big problem with these cars and needs to be addressed. Here we will list a few things that are important to incorporate within the design, and also things that should be avoided!
For The Most Effective Solution, Do not block off the port in the inlet manifold from the PCV valve. However we certainly don’t want all this rubbish being put straight back in the inlet manifold, so it needs to be trapped using an effective OCC.
We believe the main reason for some people blocking this port off is: (A) They don’t understand fully understand its functions. (B) Because it requires custom hoses and complex fittings made to connect and seal well at both ends.
The inlet manifold is the only place where a very useful natural vacuum source exists at idle & part throttle. Think of this vacuum as short for ‘vacuum cleaner’, and yes you have a useful ‘hoover’ that provides modest suck to remove the contaminated oil mist from the rocker cover & crank cases. This mist also contains much water vapour which unless extracted results in emulsifying of the oil. This is usually made worse in cooler conditions & with light driving .This breather circuit consists of a one way valve (PCV Valve) to allow fumes to be vented into the inlet manifold, but prevents reverse flow at higher throttle positions when positive boost exists in the inlet manifold. The second important function is to provide a very slight negative pressure within the crankcases & sump zone. This sucking assists oil returning from the turbo. Turbochargers use only gravity for the oil return, so any slowing or restriction here could cause the oil level to rise within the bearing housing of the turbo resulting in oil smoke from the exhaust, and long term build up of ‘baked on’ carbon deposits inside the turbocharger bearing housing reducing its lifespan.
Two OCC’s are needed to do the job 100% effectively!
We see some single OCC’s claiming to do the job of 2. Most involve blocking off the all important inlet manifold vacuum port so that can never be true and should be avoided. It is possible to do the job with just one OCC, whilst retaining the inlet manifold suck; however it requires two more ‘one way valves’. The downsides are: You only have half the tank capacity (i.e. 1 tank vs. 2 tanks). A lot of additional plumbing is required, and lastly those two extra valves could fail. For these reasons we feel 2 separate OCC’s are best.
Breather Filters Mounted On The Second ‘On Boost’ OCC Will Let Oil Fumes In The Cabin! Now here you have 2 design options: – Catch all the oil, water etc. in the OCC then return just relatively clean dry air back through the inlet. Or vent the fumes via a small filter to atmosphere. The filter option is actually very effective BUT creates oil smoke fumes that enter the cabin when driven hard, so is not ideal for road use. Also it could be a hazard if the engine blew and shot half a little of oil out of the filter either onto the hot exhaust parts, or onto the road getting under someone’s tyres. The first solution is therefore preferable.
Note the re-entry point on the engine at the turbo compressor inlet is not a vacuum zone (many think it is), in fact it is almost exactly of atmospheric pressure under all driving conditions. The only time it is ever slightly in negative pressure, is if your air filter system is restricting at full rpm & boost…but that’s another story!
Ok the second ‘On Boost’ OCC that is required connects between the other end of the rocker cover (i.e. the passenger side for UK cars), and the ‘ribbed’ induction hose between air filter and turbo compressor inlet. This is the only circuit that is in operation once you go beyond a certain amount of throttle as the inlet manifold goes from being in part vacuum to positive boost. At this point you’ve lost the suck from the manifold through the PCV valve on the other circuit, but the ‘blow by’ of combustion gasses leaking past the rings creates the flow out for the second OCC circuit.
Use Dipsticks to monitor oil level.
Plastic tube slight glass is of little use on an OCC. Firstly it goes brown very quickly making it hard to read. Secondly it can leak. An Oil Level Dipstick is a much neater idea. Design should be of the screw in type, as anything less than a perfect seal will affect the operation on the PCV valve circuit.
OCC Design Should Have Internal Method of Trapping the Oil. GTT OCC’s point the oil mist downwards at the entry point; yet collect oil free air from the very top on exit. Many cheap designs have the inlet and outlets almost pointing at each other allowing some oil to bridge the gap rather than remaining in the OCC.
Good internal design will prevent much more of the oil etc. getting past the OCC, ensuring it is stopped and stored in the OCC.
Pipe Work Should Be Custom Designed Where Possible To Allow Optimum Shape & Diameters At The Various Connection Points. They should be made of a material designed for use with oil, and to be able to withstand both positive pressure & vacuum without expanding or imploding. The original breather pipes go very brittle with age, so are probably due for changing anyway.
Custom Fittings Are Required To Connect To Inlet Manifold & PCV Valve. Not cheap or easy to design properly, but these are ‘a must’ on this car. With both vacuum and full boost, any leaks or pipes blowing off here would be a disaster.
It looks as though Timski cut and pasted an ad for Oil Catch Cans. Is there a direct link to the ad? Better to buy two Oil Catch Cans, right? Better for the manufacturer of the Catch Cans anyway.
A couple of things wrong with the ad, The turbocharger bearings don't have an oil level in the bearing, The turbocharger is lubricated by a pressure system, the bearings are flooded with oil all the time. Also, there is a very small vacuum in the turbocharger inlet, even when the engine is not under boost, and a small vacuum is all that is needed, you can verify this by putting a cheap U-tube manometer on the turbocharger inlet, there is definitely a small vacuum.
Yep...copy and paste. I came across this article the other day. Seems to be a lot of opinions on this topic. Why did I paste it here? I have read a ton about this topic and it seems like this article explains what is going on with the N14 pretty well and more complete than I have ever read in one location.
Thanks for the input. Always great to learn new things.
03-10-2017, 05:09 AM
