I am just curious to hear from all you mod heads that have em,if you really think they are necessary and/or an asset.At the East Hartford ,conn. pulley party I was ogling at PMC's car and in particular his carbon fiber STB.I asked him if he thought it really did anything and his response was"I dunno, but it sure looks the cookies dudnit?"(or something to that extent) Jock

 

For my driving, the chassis is ridged enough, so I do not plan to add a STB.
Maybe the rear...but not the front.:smile:

 

It would be tough to add a strut tower brace for the rear since there are no struts!

 

oops!

 

I'm thinking about them now. I think the rear one is necessary for some of the roads I drive on, the Front bar I'm getting mostly for piece of mind.

 

I wouldn't put any brace on my car until the company that made it scientifically demonstrated:

A) That there is flexing taking place that requires bracing.

B) The brace being sold does something to help reduce that flexing.

 

here's some very interesting information from dr gus stroes on strut tower braces....

http://e46m3performance.com/tech/strutbar/index.htm
has anyone seen any stressed flex or tears yet?

 

Good stuff Hayaku, thanks.

 

where'd he get a carbon fiber strut brace?

 

That's an interesting theoretical analysis, but it doesn't have any actual measurements. The only such measurements I have ever seen were done on a Mk3 VW and showed almost no deflection at all.

 

Wasn't that just one day of testing done on that car? It seems to me that these bars would help out our cars in the long run.

 

benfer has a really sweet looking one coming out... have no idea exactly when or pricing... but it looks sweet.

 

here we go again with another ridiculous strut tower discussion.

andy is correct.

does anybody have any idea what STRESSES are induced by some wussy 200 or 300 lb. load at the top of a mcpherson strut? the little stick free body diagram in the link above DOES NOT give stresses. the deflection and the stresses in the mini chassis depend on the actual structure reacting the load, which no one in any of these threads has either FEA modelled, hand calc modelled, or measured deflections on.


the load distribution in a real structure is determined by the relative stiffness of the load paths reacting the loads. the mini rear suspension isn't a mcpherson strut like the front. ignoring the rubber bushings everywhere, there really isn't much of a path for the wheel HORIZONTAL load to get to the upper shock mount. structures law #3: if you don't have a load path, you can't carry any load.

one single 4-40 screw will hold about 600 pounds in tension. how much metal do you have in the mini engine supports reacting a couple of hundred pound side load? how much force would it take to give the deflections mentioned in the link? i wonder if the dr. who did the FBD has analyzed a real car.

+ of strut bar = impressing know nothings with shiny bits or more expensive carbon fiber bits

- of strut bar = weight, cost, access, looking ridiculous to rational people

doing some real measurements and calculations = priceless

 

flyboy,

Unfortunately, I feel like you and I are preaching to the choir ... and it's a pretty small choir.

 

I had a Strut/Shock tower brace on the front and rear of my 73 BMW 2002tii. It was a great enhancement to the handling of the car and was a noticeable improvement. I did experience tears in the front sheet metal in the area of the radiator support structure and at the back near the firewall.
After talking to someone who is an "expert" on 2002's he told me that the car needed to be seam welded to ensure that tearing did not occur in other areas of the sheet metal.
I don't feel the same degree of body flex in the MINI that I did on my 2002, maybe my older butt does not feel it as well as it used to. I won't be getting a brace, front or rear, until someone can demonstrate a clear, documentable reduction in body flex.

 

What about when you hit a dip or something in the road going thru a turn and that "wimpy" weight is transformed into 1000's of pounds of pressure, "shock" is the better word?

 

dr gus stroes is well reknown for his engineering work... several pro racing teams come to seek his advice... before making comments like that, i would suggest you do some research on who he is.... teams like PTG know well who he is....

as to the comments following that, mods in general are of a funny nature... it would seem that the majority of people who have these "performance" mods don't really know what they do or have yet to exceed the stock configuration's limits.... and that is not directed at mini owners, but people who mod cars in general.... can they tell what a change in 5 psi in tire pressure does for them and what it affects? don't think so...

 

you'ld have to PM him.not sure.

 

I'm not really into strut braces as I don't think they really serve a purpose other than engine compartment jewelry. My track 635 had one, but it came with the car. My new track 635 has no SB, but it isn't running yet.

The money you spend for a SB is best spent for a DE or tires, well, maybe 2 tires.

 

the doc there, doesn't take into account things like scrub radius, he also has a giant "U" for a chassis , an actual representation would be more like an "A" standing on the legs of an inverted "A", and even that isnt a good representation, the real thing is best represented on a CAD system with full 3D rendering and assembly capability, along with a kinematic FEA tool. If the MINI really was flexing too much between the struts, you'd FEEL it.

 

Or, even easier, just a simple measurement of the deflection while the car is being driven:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wa...std.com&rnum=1

 

I usually do a completely unscientific test. Example, on my 1985 M5, when I jacked up the car on one side, there was so much deflection that the drivers door didn't fit anymore...you couldn't open or close it. When I put the front strut bar on, the deflection was almost eliminated. Could I feel it on the street....absolutely.

Now lets take the mini....when I jack up the car from the drivers front position the whole side of the car raises up and there is no little to no evidence of deflection. Hence.....I seriously doubt that there is a need for a front strut brace unless it is only being put on for looks.

Bruce

 

What about the new engine cradle to strut tower braces used in the new Cabrio? Being OEM, it must warrant investigation!

 

I would 'assume' that those braces are in order to compensate for the loss of stiffness that the roof had given.

 

We have a completely un-hinged carbon fiber strut tower brace coming out for the MINI in about a month. It will retail for $299.95, and will come with a new ECU cover. Pics to come, and taking pre-orders in 2 weeks. Email if interested to sales@benferperformance.com

Regards,

Dan