Stock Problems/Issues Discussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).

Timinig Chain Tensioner Failure-Extreme Engine Damage

Old Feb 24, 2015 | 08:01 AM
  #26  
TREX's Avatar
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Originally Posted by 2014-JCW
My new 2014 JCW Countryman with less than 2K miles just developed this cold start engine rattle noise. It only happens when the temperature is below freezing and only the first start up of the day. Once the engine warms up, the engine rattle noise goes away. This noise will increase in speed if the engine rpm is raised. I checked under the hood it seems to be coming from the passenger side of the engine (right side). I can't imagine it's the timing chain but it seems like it is. From what I understand it's caused by a loose timing chain rattling against the timing chain guide rails. The chain most likely comes loose when the timing chain tensioner does not operate properly.

Here is the recording I made of the engine rattling noise.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7Pg...p=docslist_api

Sounds just like our 2013 "justa" coupe. We took it to the dealership and left it over night so they could check it for the cold start rattle. The car only has 7000 miles on it.
The dealership told us all sounded normal and posting it here on tis forum it seems that is the consensus of other justa owners on this forum.
Here is a link to that discussion with videos.
https://vimeo.com/120077671
 
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Old Feb 24, 2015 | 12:47 PM
  #27  
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Slave to Felines
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From: Silly-con Valley
The noise in their video sounds a lot louder and a lot worse than the noise in your video did. I'd be worried enough that I would take it to the dealer. At the very least, they'll have their concerns documented.
 
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Old Feb 24, 2015 | 02:31 PM
  #28  
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MINI is a piece of sh.. !!

http://gotaclassaction.com/bmw-named...oper-vehicles/
 
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Old Feb 28, 2015 | 05:51 AM
  #29  
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Chain tensioner already?

I dropped off my 2014 JCW Countryman at the dealer at night so in the morning they could start it up on a cold start. I received a phone call from the service manager, he said although he didn't hear anything unusual (a little odd being the cold start engine rattle happens all the time) they replaced the timing chain tensioner with a longer one. Does that mean my 2014 JCW Countryman with around 2K miles had a defective timing chain tensioner? Or was the chain already stretched too much that it already needed a longer chain tensioner to take up the slack in the chain.

I will be picking it up in a few hours. It sat overnight again so I'm curious how the engine will sound when I start her up. The engine rattle noise would last for about 5 mins or longer. Just a note, my wife also owns a Mini Cooper, a 2015 Cooper S Roadster. The engine in her Mini sounds fine, no unusual rattle during a cold start. We bought our Minis new 3 weeks apart.
 
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Old Feb 28, 2015 | 06:01 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Slave to Felines
The noise in their video sounds a lot louder and a lot worse than the noise in your video did. I'd be worried enough that I would take it to the dealer. At the very least, they'll have their concerns documented.

Thank you, I took your advise as well as the advise of some of my friends. You see, when I wanted to be a Mini owner again, I knew Mini does have some issues, just not so early in my ownership.
 

Last edited by 2014-JCW; Feb 28, 2015 at 10:41 AM.
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Old Mar 1, 2015 | 09:33 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 2014-JCW
I dropped off my 2014 JCW Countryman at the dealer at night so in the morning they could start it up on a cold start. I received a phone call from the service manager, he said although he didn't hear anything unusual (a little odd being the cold start engine rattle happens all the time) they replaced the timing chain tensioner with a longer one. Does that mean my 2014 JCW Countryman with around 2K miles had a defective timing chain tensioner? Or was the chain already stretched too much that it already needed a longer chain tensioner to take up the slack in the chain.


I don't think you have anything to worry about the chain having stretched with only 2K miles. However if the cold start rattle is allowed to continue un-abated you will most definitely develop timing chain stretch over time.
I hope the installation of a "longer" tensioner works for you.
My personal take on the timing chain failures is more concerned with the reasons the "defective" tensioners failed to do their jobs to start with. Mini Cooper has made several attempts at fixing the tensioners, all aimed at the spring tensions and tensioner lengths, with limited success.
I believe the root cause of these failures has more to do with the tensioners ability to build sufficient oil pressure quickly enough.
Certainly in some cases this could be exasperated by low oil levels but low oil levels were not present in many of the cases reported.
I believe Mini Cooper needs to look closer at the oil pumps function directly related to the tensioners ability to build proper pressure within an acceptable period of time. I do not believe several minutes is at all an acceptable time period before the tensioner is fully tensioned.
At least your dealership was willing (albeit reluctantly) to install a "longer" tensioner but If this fails to resolve the rattle will he be willing to go any further. What if it was out of warranty?
Our dealership didn't offer to replace our tensioner so I told him that at least we still have four years of warranty left should it cause a engine failure.
I'm currently trying to convince my wife we should sell her Mini and get a different car for her.
 
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Old Mar 1, 2015 | 04:15 PM
  #32  
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Unless the poster is sloppy, she has an N12, because she did not indicate she has an "S". Unfortunately, she did not know the difference between the light that indicates "new motor needed" and an "low oil level" indicator that very few cars have EVER had.

Almost ANY car that is operated with the oil light on will need a complete motor rebuild. This has nothing to do with having a Mini. She clearly believed she was doing all the "right" things in terms of maintaining her car properly, but obviously was not and she did not respond appropriately the moment the low oil pressure light came on by instantly switching off the motor and THEN checking the oil level.

If she gets a new motor for free from BMW/Mini, she should consider herself extremely fortunate. There are SO many different things that can cause an IC motor to suddenly start losing oil, that anyone who does not check at least every week is just asking for a very expensive and unpleasant surprise, regardless of what sort of car or truck they drive.

DOC
 
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Old Mar 1, 2015 | 06:07 PM
  #33  
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R

Originally Posted by TREX
I don't think you have anything to worry about the chain having stretched with only 2K miles. However if the cold start rattle is allowed to continue un-abated you will most definitely develop timing chain stretch over time.
I hope the installation of a "longer" tensioner works for you.
My personal take on the timing chain failures is more concerned with the reasons the "defective" tensioners failed to do their jobs to start with. Mini Cooper has made several attempts at fixing the tensioners, all aimed at the spring tensions and tensioner lengths, with limited success.
I believe the root cause of these failures has more to do with the tensioners ability to build sufficient oil pressure quickly enough.
Certainly in some cases this could be exasperated by low oil levels but low oil levels were not present in many of the cases reported.
I believe Mini Cooper needs to look closer at the oil pumps function directly related to the tensioners ability to build proper pressure within an acceptable period of time. I do not believe several minutes is at all an acceptable time period before the tensioner is fully tensioned.
At least your dealership was willing (albeit reluctantly) to install a "longer" tensioner but If this fails to resolve the rattle will he be willing to go any further. What if it was out of warranty?
Our dealership didn't offer to replace our tensioner so I told him that at least we still have four years of warranty left should it cause a engine failure.
I'm currently trying to convince my wife we should sell her Mini and get a different car for her.
This Saturday morning I picked up my 2014 JCW Countryman from the dealership. I brought the extra key and looked for my car in their parking lot this way I would be the first one to start it up while the engine was still cold. The temperature was 20F and I'm happy to report I didn't hear the cold start rattle. Sunday morning the temperature was once again 20F. I started up my JCW, and all is well. What a big difference. It's hard to imagine that my new JCW with less than 2K miles needed a new timing chain tensioner. The dealer did install the longer tensioner. I hope this timing chain tensioner will last. Even though my JCW has the so called improved N18 engine and not the questionable N14 engine , I was sure it was indeed the timing chain that was rattling under the hood. The noise was coming directly from where the chain was located. I will listen carefully again for that chain rattle noise one more time. After that I will thank the service manager for taking my concern seriously and not just blowing me off like some dealers have done to many Mini owners here on this forum. Interesting enough, the part number for the chain tensioner that was installed in my 2014 JCW is the same one they have been replacing in the N14 engines.

I just want to point out that my wife owns a new 2015 Mini Roadster S that we purchased last month also with the N18 engine. Her car has about 1200 miles on it and it doesn't have that timing chain rattle that my 2014 JCW had.
 
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Old Mar 2, 2015 | 09:52 AM
  #34  
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2014-JWC, I am pleased that the dealership was willing to change your tensioner to a different longer one and that this apparently has stopped the cold start rattle.
I wish our dealership had agreed to change ours out as well, but he was adamant that everything was normal in our Mini.
I cannot say this enough, it is not good for your Mini's timing chain to rattle for the first five, ten, fifteen minutes before the tensioner builds enough pressure to keep the timing chain from rattling and untreated will result in your timing chain stretching and the eventual destruction of your engine.
If the dealerships or other Mini Cooper owners are claiming this cold start rattle to be "normal", then they are really promoting the acceptance of a serious defect in the timing chain assembly design.
We absolutely will not change/alter the timing chain tensioner on our Mini Cooper outside of the dealership as to do so on our own would be to jeopardize our warranty.
Unfortunately for us we are faced with two alternatives, continue to drive our Mini with the cold start rattle and hope it fails before our warranty is up or sell/trade our Mini for a different car.
 
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Old Mar 3, 2015 | 11:55 AM
  #35  
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yikes. well done and good luck. don't listen to some of these guys. if you even checked the oil once every other month you should have been fine. most likely the tensioner's problem causing oil loss, not oil loss causing tensioner problem

i didnt catch you specify - was this for a non-s cooper?
 
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Old Mar 3, 2015 | 03:30 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by TREX
I don't think you have anything to worry about the chain having stretched with only 2K miles. However if the cold start rattle is allowed to continue un-abated you will most definitely develop timing chain stretch over time.
I hope the installation of a "longer" tensioner works for you.
My personal take on the timing chain failures is more concerned with the reasons the "defective" tensioners failed to do their jobs to start with. Mini Cooper has made several attempts at fixing the tensioners, all aimed at the spring tensions and tensioner lengths, with limited success.
I believe the root cause of these failures has more to do with the tensioners ability to build sufficient oil pressure quickly enough.
Certainly in some cases this could be exasperated by low oil levels but low oil levels were not present in many of the cases reported.
I believe Mini Cooper needs to look closer at the oil pumps function directly related to the tensioners ability to build proper pressure within an acceptable period of time. I do not believe several minutes is at all an acceptable time period before the tensioner is fully tensioned.
At least your dealership was willing (albeit reluctantly) to install a "longer" tensioner but If this fails to resolve the rattle will he be willing to go any further. What if it was out of warranty?
Our dealership didn't offer to replace our tensioner so I told him that at least we still have four years of warranty left should it cause a engine failure.
I'm currently trying to convince my wife we should sell her Mini and get a different car for her.

You shouldn't have to put up with with a rattling engine. Even if it's only for 5 to 10 minutes. In my case that rattling noise was the chain hitting against the guides and tensioner caused by a failing tensioner. That would have caused the chaining guides to wear quickly, not to mention loss of performance due to the valve train timing being off. I would contact Mini USA and tell them your displeasure. My wife's 2015 Mini Cooper S roadster never rattles like my mini did. At least I had something to compare it to. You bought a new car, you should not have to tolerate a noisy timing chain knowing that it will eventually fail and leave you stranded.

Call me Mini.
 
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