This makes me want to sell my car. Lots of things make me want to sell my car lately. Danny, I'm truly sorry to hear of your situation, and I wish I could say I'm shocked at how MINI is handling this. Unfortunately, this is just the latest example of what a horrible unscrupulous company they are. This whole episode is total BS.

 

I agree with jsun. Danny I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with MINIUSA. They are full of crap. Just know that everyone here is behind you and will support you anyway we can. Please do fight this issue and not lay down for MINIUSA. What did they say about the MM ACT? Have you contacted a lawyer?

again sorry to hear about your troubles

tony

 

What no lawyers on here driving a MINI willing to offer their help a low fee.
Free advice would be nice :smile:
Good Luck

 

Danny,

I have just Lemoned my Mini last week due to yoyo and bad software. Mini tried the old aftermarket pulley no warranty on me too - plicks (my wife is asian)

Not sure how many miles you have on the car or how old but you don't necessarily need 3 + 1 times fix of the same problem to go to Lemon Law - you don't need a lawyer and it doesn't cost a cent - just time - however it will cost BMW. I know this doesn't fix your car but Lemon Law has been known to pay for rental cars also. If you win, Lemon Law will award you the cost of every aftermarket part still installed on the car as well as window tint etc. - there is a calculation to offset mileage for your use. Check the lemon book they supplied with your car.

Best of luck with these plicks - I know all about them.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

OK......flame suit on........what in the HELL are you talking about???? All of you???
Modifications to the engine have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER TRAIN AND SPECIFICALLY THE CLUTCH. Add to that a heavy dose of spirited driving and probably (and for this I do truly apologize) some inexpert clutch usage or too heavy a dose of rush hour in Washington D.C. and you get what you got...... they told you in writing, in black and white.......modifications will void the warranty.....what else did you expect......??????
I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......

 

>>Danny,
>>
>>I have just Lemoned my Mini last week due to yoyo and bad software. Mini tried the old aftermarket pulley no warranty on me too - plicks (my wife is asian)
>>
>>Not sure how many miles you have on the car or how old but you don't necessarily need 3 + 1 times fix of the same problem to go to Lemon Law - you don't need a lawyer and it doesn't cost a cent - just time - however it will cost BMW. I know this doesn't fix your car but Lemon Law has been known to pay for rental cars also. If you win, Lemon Law will award you the cost of every aftermarket part still installed on the car as well as window tint etc. - there is a calculation to offset mileage for your use. Check the lemon book they supplied with your car.
>>
>>Best of luck with these plicks - I know all about them.

I wasn't aware that they would pay for aftermarket parts also. I have tint on my car being bought back. I guess I will check if they will cover that.
>>
>>_________________
>>'03 S DS

 

>>OK......flame suit on........what in the HELL are you talking about???? All of you???
>>Modifications to the engine have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER TRAIN AND SPECIFICALLY THE CLUTCH. Add to that a heavy dose of spirited driving and probably (and for this I do truly apologize) some inexpert clutch usage or too heavy a dose of rush hour in Washington D.C. and you get what you got...... they told you in writing, in black and white.......modifications will void the warranty.....what else did you expect......??????
>>I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......

i vote this the #1 most retarded post in years.
you must be related to minidivision.

 

>>OK......flame suit on........what in the HELL are you talking about???? All of you???
>>Modifications to the engine have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER TRAIN AND SPECIFICALLY THE CLUTCH. Add to that a heavy dose of spirited driving and probably (and for this I do truly apologize) some inexpert clutch usage or too heavy a dose of rush hour in Washington D.C. and you get what you got...... they told you in writing, in black and white.......modifications will void the warranty.....what else did you expect......??????
>>I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......

Did you look at his mods? Come on, what HP gain could those have made? Tell me how a new intake or muffler would boost your HP up to unbearable for the clutch. As for the plasma booster, well I'm sure M& has some HP claims but nothing extreme.

Looking at the list I cannot any of them tweaking the engine to the extreme to wreck a clutch. Of course it would be very simple for them, fix the clutch and dyno it. If its putting out ridiculous HP then you are right. But if it isn't they have their heads up the ***** and should warrantee the clutch.(just this one) If it happens again I say driver error.


Paul

 

A classic sign of a person that has not a clue what the Magnuson-Moss Act really means. Check this link out. This may give you more help than you think, especially since it is the Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association (SEMA). This is the group that fights for our right s to mod our cars.


http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?ID=8124


Read this and learn something!



>>OK......flame suit on........what in the HELL are you talking about???? All of you???
>>Modifications to the engine have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER TRAIN AND SPECIFICALLY THE CLUTCH. Add to that a heavy dose of spirited driving and probably (and for this I do truly apologize) some inexpert clutch usage or too heavy a dose of rush hour in Washington D.C. and you get what you got...... they told you in writing, in black and white.......modifications will void the warranty.....what else did you expect......??????
>>I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......

 

pocketrocketowner,

In my experience with BMW the warranty is not worth the 2 pages it is written on. They used my pulley as an excuse not to fix my car and when I replaced it with the original part so they could "fix it" as they requested - they still couldn't after repeated attempts. Now tell me what warranty is all about? What BMW is doing is illegal and people need to stand up to this corporate bully.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

I would like to point out that Mini sells the JCW kit which greatly increases the horsepower and there are no modifications required to the drivetrain. Ergo, they admit the drivetrain will support up to 200 hp without modification.

emerika

 

emerika is dead on. Though the dealer may want to avoid the issue, the fact is that the mods done do not exceed what the JCW does on either the MC or MCS. Since the JCW does not add upgrades to the trans, then the trans can handle the increase in HP/torque under warrantee. Therefore, torque or HP increases cannot possibly have contributed to the premature failure of the trans.

 

>>wellllll...
>>
>>I got the call. They took the engine out, disconnected the driveshaft, pulled out the trans, and apparently, the clutch "crumbled" out. So, after 10K miles (the entire trans and clutch was replaced at 3K), the clutch plate is nothing. Does this make sense? The dealer blammed it on the way the car is driven... Now? They want me to pay $1500 for a new clutch.
>>

Clutches don't just crumble while the car is parked. You said that you noticed the clutch was loose when you started the car, implying that it was fine when you parked it, also that you were able to drive it in to the dealer. It?s hard to drive a car with a clutch that has crumbled.

Go see the dealer and ask to see the disassembled transmission and clutch. You may be able to judge if they're using the clutch as a cover for some other problem.

While its lame and suspicious that the dealer would cry about modifications voiding your warranty on a clutch problem, when those modifications are not directly related to your clutch, its also possible (only you would know) that you just fried the clutch.

good luck

 

As I read further through this thread...

>>I got an e-mail back from Mini Usa...
>>
>>
>>"We realize that many MINI owners will be keen to modify their car. Nevertheless, like most other vehicle makers, we cannot officially endorse or recommend modification to the car's engineering beyond what items are available from MINI. Such action may affect or invalidate the manufacturer's warranty. MINI does not recommend the installation of non-MINI aftermarket parts. MINI has designed various aftermarket accessories for the MINI which have been tested on the MINI. These items are designed by MINI for the MINI and will not void the warranty if they are installed by an authorized MINI dealer.
>>
>>I am sorry to convey a disappointing message, based on the information you provided regarding the modifications, I am sorry to say that we would not be able to cover this repair under the warranty. Furthermore, the MINI dealer's service department has the technical training and special tools needed to properly inspect, diagnose and repair the MINI. For this reason, we back the MINI dealer's professional and expert diagnosis in this matter.
>>
>>Karen Labatzky
>>MINI Customer Relations and Services
>>Representative
>>866-ASK-MINI (866.275.6464)"
>>
>>now what, guys?

Sounds like, if you've put a non-Mini oil filter on you car and have any problems, don't bother taking it to the dealer for repairs. If they won't honor the warrenty, you can probably find a good mechanic elsewhere that's less expensive. This unreasonable policy only drives customers away from dealer service.

 

>>>>I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......
>>
>>i vote this the #1 most retarded post in years.
>>you must be related to minidivision.

Thank you for insulting my (albeit small) intellect.....I love you too......and no you don't get a smiley

 

>>
>>
>>Read this and learn something!
>>
>>
>>
Why don't YOU pay attention to what you read?????
We all have a right to modify our cars, they have a right to deny coverage if THEY deem the part in question has done anything.....if I change the chip in my F-350 and make it do 370 HP instead of 300 by putting more fuel through it and my fuel injection pump fails, I am honest enough to know that that was MY choice and I don't try to rip the dealer or Ford off.
If I blow my clutch, again on my F-350 and I can't figure out why, i press Ford, but then I have to be honest with myself and remember i had gotten it stuck big time and had thrashed it back and forth until it came out....well that might be a tiny explanation of why it blew..........automatically blaming the big bad company without owning up to certain facts is facile and intellectually dishonest.......but hey, like I said....fire suit is on........BTW....what kind of MINI do you own??? Mine is aBRG and it has the JCW kit.....it is ugly and it is slow.....

 

mr. pocket.....
don't feel insulted, just don't expect much sympathy when you have mini refuse you on a warranty claim because you use the name POCKETROCKET..... that would imply SPIRITED driving, right????

_________________
-1 PW/MC

 

Ok, evidently you didn't go read the information on the SEMA site. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence either. But, basically, in this particular case what it boils down to is MINI wants to deny coverage of a clutch assembly because he has what amounts to an open element air cleaner on his car. As an ASE certified mechanic, I can pretty much tell you for a fact that this is pretty much impossible. You show me how an open element air filter DIRECTLY effects how a clutch works, then I will believe. What I believe MINI is saying is that because he didn't by the JC part from MINI, they will not warranty any part of the drivetrain. But, now I can almost guarantee that if he had the JCW package on the car and brought it in, they would not have denied warranty of the clutch assembly. Why? Because he bought the JCW parts (MINI "certified" parts) and had them installed. There is no real difference between the JCW parts and the parts available from other vendors. Just the MINI logo.


In this case, what I would like to think happened, based on the info given here, is that when the other dealer replaced the transmission, the tech did not adjust the clutch assembly properly, therefore not allowing the clutch disc to make a 100% positive contact with the flywheel surface. So, over time the clutch has been slipping to the point of failure. Now, explain to me how the air cleaner assembly caused this problem? It would have happened regardless of whether or not the car was bone stock or modded.

Again, the Magnuson-Moss act says in its simplest definition, that a dealer has the burdon of proof on them to prove that the aftermarket part installed caused the failure of the part in question.

I hope this clears up any questions about why MINI should in fact stand behind their certified dealer repair and eat the clutch job.

And BTW, I have an '05 MCS on order.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Read this and learn something!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>Why don't YOU pay attention to what you read?????
>>We all have a right to modify our cars, they have a right to deny coverage if THEY deem the part in question has done anything.....if I change the chip in my F-350 and make it do 370 HP instead of 300 by putting more fuel through it and my fuel injection pump fails, I am honest enough to know that that was MY choice and I don't try to rip the dealer or Ford off.
>>If I blow my clutch, again on my F-350 and I can't figure out why, i press Ford, but then I have to be honest with myself and remember i had gotten it stuck big time and had thrashed it back and forth until it came out....well that might be a tiny explanation of why it blew..........automatically blaming the big bad company without owning up to certain facts is facile and intellectually dishonest.......but hey, like I said....fire suit is on........BTW....what kind of MINI do you own??? Mine is aBRG and it has the JCW kit.....it is ugly and it is slow.....

 

PRO said:

>>Why don't YOU pay attention to what you read?????

It's interesting tht other people can't seem to "correctly" read your posts either.

I rarely get through one and interpret it the way you intended.

Maybe some spaces, indentation and paragraphs would help?

Just a suggestion so you can be more clearly understood by everyone.

 

>>OK......flame suit on........what in the HELL are you talking about???? All of you???
>>Modifications to the engine have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER TRAIN AND SPECIFICALLY THE CLUTCH. Add to that a heavy dose of spirited driving and probably (and for this I do truly apologize) some inexpert clutch usage or too heavy a dose of rush hour in Washington D.C. and you get what you got...... they told you in writing, in black and white.......modifications will void the warranty.....what else did you expect......??????
>>I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......



OK, I won't take up the issue of mods but......If Mini sells a MCS to a person that never drove a manual transmission before and that driver bakes his clutch. Guess what??? It would be under warranty. If that person drives spiritedly, guess what??? It would be under warranty. Now what is your point???

 

>>OK......flame suit on........what in the HELL are you talking about???? All of you???
>>Modifications to the engine have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER TRAIN AND SPECIFICALLY THE CLUTCH. Add to that a heavy dose of spirited driving and probably (and for this I do truly apologize) some inexpert clutch usage or too heavy a dose of rush hour in Washington D.C. and you get what you got...... they told you in writing, in black and white.......modifications will void the warranty.....what else did you expect......??????
>>I am with MINI on this one....sorry......flame away.......


The mods he did to his car would probably put less stress on the Power Train/Transmissioin/clutch than driving around with a passanger in his car. I would expect there is enough engineering margin in the clutch that I could drive around at my MINI's gross vehicle weight for the warranty time period in San Francisco and not have the clutch fail. The 1985 Toyota MR2 that I owned was the first car I learned to drive stick on and I'll tell you I beat the "%&$#" out of that car and I got 140,000 miles on that clutch/transmission.

BTW - I hope you pay someone to work on your car/s because you have a very limited understanding of how things work. Flame done.

 

Dear MINIusa.
You might want to also see the area of the MINIUSA.com web site called "Mini Mavericks". It goes like this (with drawing of a highly modified MINI):

LET'S REINVENT THE HOT ROD.

MODIFIED MINI
Let's be a work in progress...

If this is not an invitation to modify your MINI, what IS?

 

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that a clutch and pressure plate are indeed "wear items". I've seen clutches last 125k miles on vehicles driven only on rural highways, but I've also seen clutches last only 15k miles when driving conditions are more extreme, such as daily stop and go city driving, and week-end auto-x. Sometimes it is owner abuse or neglect, sometimes it is where or how a car is driven, and sometimes it is a combination of all.

While a clutch going out at 10 - 15 k is not common, it is not necessarily a defect that should be covered under warranty either. This should be very fact specific, and the clutch should be examined by an independent mechanic ( a second opinion) prior to any "lines being drawn".

 

OK....I give. Not only am I an incompetent ignoramus that can barely make himself understood (according to the Solon of Minnesota anyway) but I admit the error of my ways. MINI Division are nothing but a bunch of thieving Germans. what right have they to dare deny warranties only because some of us choose to ignore what they told us in the first place, in black and white. They are the thieves, not us saintly consumers who have done nothing to our cars of our own volition. It is their dammed ads and marketing that make us bolt stuff on them from Billy Bob......they should be made to pay.......and BTW.....throw the Warranty Act around all you want....in the end you have rights and you have obligations.....by signing the little papers you signed when you bought the car, you signed that you read the warranty, understood the warranty and agreed to abide by its terms........if my car develops a defect that is traced to materials or workmanship, I will expect a warranty. I will not expect a warranty when I have abused the clutch in autoX or at the track.......or on the street........
As to how a filter and a plasma booster and a whatever else was installed in the car....tell me what the plasma booster does.......and Mr. Super Mini......please, before opening your mouth.....rwead the little warranty booklet deliverd with your car. it is not what it does or does not do....it is what it is..............and ANY time you care to compare technical knowledge, just let me know.........but, er read up first OK???

 

The point that I think you're missing, though, is that the law limits what Mini can do with its warranty. So it doesn't matter so much that he "signed the little papers" -- we each sign unenforceable contractual provisions every day; companies throw them in hoping to discourage lawsuits.

Essentially, the law recognizes that car manufacturers have a semi (if not total) monopoly on new car warranties, and so the law limits the extent to which a manufacturer can leverage that monopoly into other markets. It might be tempting, for example, for Ford to pair up wih Chevron and declare that if you put anything but Chevron Techron(TM) gas in your car, it'll void the warranty. VW has actually done something similar, apparently, by declararing that the use of anything other than a VW oil voids the warranty. That would appear to be a clear violation of the Moss Act, and it doesn't matter if Ford/VW put it in 48-point red flashing font right at the top of the warranty contract and made you sign thrice in blood, it would still be unenforceable.

Think about this by analogy to the most commonly talked about anti-trust offender: Microsoft. Microsoft is accused of leveraging a monopoly it has lawfully acquired in one area (operating systems) to unlawfully influence other areas (browsers, media players, etc.). We're making a similar accusation here, but we have the benefit of the specific terms of the Magnuson Moss Act (and accompanying CFR) to guide us. Mini has a monopoly on Mini warranties, and they are attempting use that as leverage to convince people to buy air filters with a "JCW" stamp on them. Moss Act says fine, but only up to a point. Mini is free to void its warranty as it applies to air filters, but beyond that, the burden is on Mini to demonstrate that the unauthorized part caused the defect. (*)


(*) Mini is also free to do two other things: (i) Mini can declare any part an essential part, so long as it provides that part for free. There is a good argument, then, that Mini could actually declare that the use of non-Mini oil voids the warranty, as they provide that free under the maintenance warranty. (Not so with JCW parts, unfortunately.) (ii) Mini is also free to apply to the FTC to have a particular part declared essential -- basically an opt out from the Moss Act. I'm assuming it hasn't done so.