any news on that? the only thing that bothers me about the car is this elsd.. and swapping in a mechanical bumps you into a different class

 

did you ever get clarification on this?

 

A year later including 5 autocross days and about 10 track days, I have seen no evidence that the eLSD cuts power. But I can tell you that it is no replacement for a mechanical LSD. In autoX I run with the DTC full off and against a 2008 MINI Cooper S with a mechanical LSD, he is consistently faster even though he is on lesser tires, base suspension and has less power. Granted he may be a better driver, but when you watch the 2 cars, his definitely pulls better around the corners. On the track, the eLSD doesn't seem to be that much different from the mechanical LSD. But it really chews up pads and rotors. On the plus side, the DTC will save your butt if you make an oops on the track and on the "traction" setting it doesn't seem to interfere with driving hard.

 

interesting - could you give an opinion as to whether this would be better for a base mini than having a totally open diff? As far as I can tell the answer is yes for autox, and I'm not sure for track

 

I would get it for any MINI; base, S or JCW. The reason is the same for autoX and track. The open differential is a pain in either case, it is just more of a pain for autoX. So, yes I think it is worth it for a base MINI. Plus, the traction control options it gives you is worth it for the track (saved my butt and car this weekend). In a base MINI it will probably be fine for the track and not too hard on the brakes. The S, with the added power, will just spin the tires too easily if you are not careful. Another thing to consider is a sticky set of tires. They are harder to spin, thus the eLSD will have less to do.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm still on the fence-ish, but I just realized this thread is regarding DSC, not DTC/EDLC, which makes me feel much better about it. Hopefully too, after 5 years there has been a lot of calibration etc for all three. I am still a little worried about brakes overheating on the track, though theoretically if I'm gentle rolling on the throttle it shouldn't activate the EDLC as much - though I won't be able to tell when and how much is too much with it active


OK - re-reading, it seems that yes, this thread is about DSC kicking back on - not about any DTC/EDLC issues. This issue is for autoxing, but ONLY when a wheel actually lifts - which is often the case with autox. It seems that there aren't any issues, even with wheel lift, with DSC/DTC off & EDLC on, by another thread referred to from here.

 

revisiting this.

so, much later, i have the new car, with elsd, and while i'm not sure yet about a throttle cut, i am definitely hitting an "ice mod" where brakes, steering, etc. don't respond and the car just plows, even when i'm not at the limit of grip. so it seems mini still has something kicking in if it thinks the car is behaving badly. if anyone's got any solutions that are stock class legal/don't give up stuff like abs, ebd, etc. please let me know.

both times it's severely kicked in, while i was definitely not driving it "well" it basically prevented me any opportunity to correct, losing all braking and steering.

 

Are you talking about right around 54 seconds in the video? Looks like you were just carrying too much speed for the amount of steering input but then again it's going to be really hard to tell from the video. You'll probably need some data acquisition to figure out when exactly it happens in order to pinpoint the issue. I've not heard of other people having this issue but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

i definitely was, but when i tried to brake the pedal was super stiff, and it just felt like the car was on ice and wanted to plow. i had assumed i was just at the limit of grip, and then suddenly asked too much of my tires, but it "felt" a little stranger than a normal understeer scrub, and when i posted about it here and there that's when people started mentioning the "ice mode," etc

 

Maybe you were lifting a tire when you tried to brake and it screwed with the ABS? I drove a D stock mini a few times on Hoosiers and that thing would pick up the inside rear wheels all the time but I never had an issue with the brakes.

 

i think that's something along the lines of what it was. again though, fast drivers in the car hadn't encountered the issue, so it must be my poor driving inputs.

thanks for the input

 

Kyoo - what are you using for brake pads?
You don't see this in your other videos, do you?

 

stock pads. it happened one other time, and i understeered like crazy. it's like it happens when i'm already in trouble

 

Getting off line onto the dirty/gravelling/marble stuff?

 

not impossible, but i do think it is a braking technique error, which as mentioend in another thread, may be locking up rear brakes if one's in the air, causing all sorts of other problems. i'll keep at it, see if anything changes

 

The steering is not controlled by the electronics. The steering effort is, but not the steering itself. So that says something else is happening--the computer cannot ignore your steering inputs, it can only make you have to put more or less arm into them. This says to me that it's not the computer that is losing your steering.

From the look of the video, I think you may have simply gotten to a terminal understeer condition and slid the front wheels. It might have been due to brakes locking up--I have done similar things in non-ABS cars, locking up and plowing straight off course in most cases. With the brakes locked, you're just a passenger...

Could there be something funky going on with the ABS?

 

right, i meant that something in the the brakes etc had some lockup or something or other. pretty much determined that's what it was, perhaps rear brakes locked up, causing some confusion in the front brakes, etc. the car wasn't in a state of understeer UNTIL i tried to apply the brakes after that corner cone

 

The DTC can do funny things and the eLSD part of it can cook a set of pads. You are taking the turns pretty hard and I am sure the eLSD is trying its best to prevent wheel spin. You may have had over heated pads and the eLSD was trying extra hard to do its job.

An easy thing you could try is a better set of front pads. A set of Yellow Stuff or Hawk HP+ pads make for a great autoX pad and they can take a lot of abuse. Another option, but a lot more expensive, is a set of Carbotech AX-6 pads which is an autoX specific pad. All of these make a great street pads as well as autoX pads. Even without this problem I would suggest a better pad, so in my mind you have nothing to lose by trying this. If it helps, then it will be a double win.

 

It seems to me you are wide at the apex on the preceding left hander and going too fast to make the second. You state that the tires aren't at maximum grip but it seems to me that they are beyond it. You're too far right making the turn tighter, you're going too fast and must brake as well as turning in sharper than your speed would allow. A tire can turn at maximum speed or brake at the maximum deaccelation rate but not both. It can only do both at the same time in limited amounts. When you leave the proper line you go off the nicely rubbered surface onto an unrubbered surface with loose stuff on it. Now you have three problems with grip. So your front tires give up and plow straight ahead just as they will when hydroplaning.

I would suggest that the next time you find yourself in this "ice mode," straighten the steering wheel and see if you don't get increased grip to slow down with and then turn in. This is actually good experience as once you become sensitive to the feel of what the tires are doing you can drive right on the limit of maximum grip with minor corrections to remain on line and going fast.

 

^ right, i'm not necessarily saying i wasn't beyond the level of grip, and i know what terminal understeer feels like (evo days) - i'm just saying it was a little more unnatural, and like i said the brake pedal was completely stiffened up when i got on it, above where u normally can push it down to, an indication i had that something was off, other than me just not driving correctly.

but regardless of whether it was a elsd/bmw ice mode thing or just terminal understeer or onto the marbles etc etc, you're right in that i would not have encountered it had i slowed down before that entry cone, and basically drove the car correctly. not exactly my point - my suspicion here is that, if driven incorrectly in this way/upsetting abs/elsd/brakes etc, the car may be put into some sort of "ice mode" that exacerbates the understeer. this is pretty common for most bmws to do (ice mode) since frontal crash is the safest crash, and the "ice mode" is well documented for other bmws. not sure. but again, you're right in that it is at least in part due to my driving, if not completely me.