what about cosmetic pieces??
I was thinking of adding some chrome....
grill light surrounds, ect.

I was thinkinng of adding a better breather but i guess this out now!

_____
/__|__\__
(o)_|___(o)
DOOMBUGGY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I've got a non-MINI rear sway bar, and I've got a pretty good dealer. I don't think they'd use my sway bar as a reason to not cover an engine or transmission problem.

However if they did (and this is the one thing that some dealers don't seem to recognize), I'd have no reason to ever return to them for any repair of any type. Once I'm told my warrenty is void, I can have my car repaired anywhere I want. If I'm not happly with the dealer for voiding my warranty, I sure won't use them!

 

What's the point in a MINI warranty? The last time I took my car in for its scheduled service, MINI updates the software turns my fun car into a car that feels 20 years old and in need of repair. I've got 8,000 miles left on the so called warranty and need to carry it in and see if they can fix what they have caused. The only problem, what if they make it worse? Then I'm stuck with absolutley no warranty and have to pay out of pocket to fix what they have messed up even further because I wanted something fixed. Oh, and nevermind the problems they can't reproduce. I guess it's hard to reproduce with the car sitting in a garage, cool, when the problem happens when the car is warm.

I don't keep cars long after the warranty is expired. This last trip will make my purchase decision for my next car. First time, shame on you. Second time, shame on me.

 

Well from the manufacturers perspective the point is to guarantee a standard of quality and performance from a car that has thousands or hundreds of thousands man hours in research, design, testing and manufacturing quality control. They spend all this money because that guarantee brings new buyers. If they don't, toyota will....and toyota gets all the sales then.
.......the point is we went through a lot of effort to do this right, don't mess with it.....

In your case the waranty is working out great for the manufacturer because they can get you to buy a new car as often as the warranty runs out, Which is much more frequently than the average car buyer. You are not the only person who would rather pay $400 a month for a car payment than a $400 repair every 6months for a car that needs frequent repair.
......the point is keep'em commin back and buyin new......

It is not in the manufacturers intrest to have aftermarket mods on a car at all. whether it causes part failure at 20k miles(under warranty) or not. Mods do shorten the lifespan of a car. A car that has their name on it. Every time a car goes to the junk yard early it hurts their reputation a little bit.
......the point is your name is valuable, keep it that way.....

 

If I were to have had a problem, and they claimed it was my pully. I'd say prove it, and I'd quote the JCW part as proof of my position. The point of the law is that the dealer has to provide PROVE that you screwed the pooch! And the proof isn't just saying it's so. (in fact, if one could show there is widespread abuse of this, some lawyer is going to make car warrantee claim abuse a mother of a class action case!)

No one is saying they want a free ride. I want a FAIR ride. The law is there for a reason. Not only does it protect us for modding our cars, it prevents the auto company becoming an effective monopoly on spare parts. If we had to by rotors just from Mini, and no one else, then we'd be paying $250 for a $50 part....

Huh? Ask Porsche about that, and how about support for Corvette racing programs. The list of examples is endless. It's no about mods or not, it's about appropriate use of property! It's the owners car, they want to change it they can. And the denial of service based on unrelated changes is just deceptive behaviour.
And for Mods shortening the lifespan of a car, not all. I can tell you for sure that my tire life is improved by the addiition of camber plates, and you can't tell me a 1.3 degree change in loading angles on the suspension moutning points does didly for the wear of the item.
And it is in the interest of the car manufacturer to allow for modifications, if they want access to the tuner marketplace. How many BILLIONS of dollers went there, and there sure are "modder freindly" cars out there, and support for mods by publishing catalogs of factory racing parts!

It's not about locking any one down (nor about bashing JCW parts prices). It's about keeping the boudary of responsability clear as one does what one likes with ones own property!

Matt

 

I am all for anyone doing as they see fit to their cars, and no one is trying to stop you from doing so, you just cant expect the same level of waranty coverage. They make it clear, it is YOUR choice to make and if you mess with it under warranty you are at their mercy. Some will be nice some will be A-holes but you know this going in to the decision. So it comes back to the three choices we all have

1. leave it alone until warranty expires
2. mod it, and quietly pay for repairs
3. Sue sue sue, because you cant make the dealer repair the car. They will refuse, you will go to court and probably win but at what cost of time money and burned bridges.

 

Keep in mind, the warranty is not *free.* We all pay for it when we buy the car. The dealer has calculated the average failure rate for parts on the car over the period of the warranty, and they factor that into the purchase price.

.....the point is, that when a dealer voids the warranty on your engine for an unrelated reason (you've installed non-MINI break pads, windshield wiper blades, or tires), they're not giving you what you paid for.

 

Planeguy, you're just wrong. It's not global. You didn't speak to the example of non-OEM parts (that are OEM replacement) or tire brands. The choices you list are not complete. You have to add

4) Mod your car, and insist on your rights when a dealer doesn't want to honor thier LEGAL obligation.

I can't see at all why your writing down that if I put in a racing seat (a mod) that I'd have to pay if my rear wheel bearing goes out (quietly pay). It just doesn't make sense, and isn't the current state of the law.

No one expects COMPLETE coverage despite any modifications, but it seems that overall, the consumer is getting the short end here by having dealers say that tinting effects the mechanicas of a car. You also didn't comment on the fact that not all mods make a car worse.

Sure you can repeat you said before, but there still are legal requirements and obligations that exist that your position doesn't recognize or address.

Matt

 

It must be a dealer call as well.


I just has a cracked rear cross drilled brembo rotor found during my 30K inspection. They also found a frozen brake piston in the stock brake caliper.

Rasmussen MINI replaced the stock pad, the stock calipers and the rear rotors. The only charge I incurred was for the parts cost of the Brembo Rotors.

Labor, and stock parts were all replaced under warranty. Even though they interacted rather critically with the aftermarket parts. ( It could've been either that failed and ruined the other.)


Seems like it all depends on the dealer attitude within the federal law.

 

This is just the problem. It's not up to the dealer to arbitrate this. The example above is perfect! The customer paid for rotors, and Mini paid for thier stuff.

The point of the laws aren't that the dealer gets to choose. The point of the law is that there is bondary to responsibilities.

Matt

 

In a perfect world that would be the case. Obviously not all dealers are equal. I'm planning to do some mods. Before I go forward, I plan to research the southern California dealers for their mod policies. The one with the most mod-friendly policy will get all my business. If they are all anti-mod, I either wait until the warranty is up, or I go in boned up on federal warranty law. Even with Magnusson, modding will obviously give the dealer "an out" to deny some claims. As you noted earlier, I think most modders are only looking for fairness.

Mike

 

You don't know how true those words are....

Researching the dealers is the best preventive step you can take. Even if you go in all boned up on Magnusson-Moss, if you get a hostile dealer, you will be in for a miserable experience. BMW has far more resources to throw at litigation, and my memory of Magnusson-Moss is that you have to prevail first in order to be awarded attorneys fees. You can avoid all of the misery up front if you can find a modification-friendly dealer.

 

That we ALL assume we'll get screwed by the dealer when we go in for warrantee work. There may be some trueth to the systematic denial of warrantee claims.

Boo hoo.

 

I'm curious, there's a lot of talk about dealers voiding warranties, but other than the person who said that the dealer told him his tint was a voidable act, has anyone who has done the more common mods; CAI, exhaust, pulley actually had the dealer tell them that their warranty is now void????

And yes, different dealerships will take care of things that others won't, and it doesn't matter if it's BMW or GM. They all seem to vary depending on the dealership. Had our Suburban into the dealer well under the year part of the warranty, but 25 miles over on the mileage part. We had to push them hard to warranty out the fuel pump that had failed. What a crock, beating us up for 25 measly miles. The kicker is, two years later we get a recall/campaign notice from GM for their faulty fuel pumps, and to call and schedule an apptmt. for a free replacement.....AAAARRRRGGGHHH.

 

Ummm.....No, I think option #3 is exactly what you have covered here.

When do you think the law is enforced? you can't call the cops and make them fix your car. The only way to make them honor a legal obligation is take'em to court. also known as option #3

I would like to see a thread of only absurdly denied warranty claims. I can't imagine this is any more than 1 in a 10000 cases and almost always the case of someones attitude.

No dealer is going to deny a warranty claim on the engine just because you have a sparco seat, but that seat does tell them we got someone here that likes to drive their car hard, probably tracking it often. This is going to cause them to look very carefully for signs of abuse and they may deny the warranty claim based on suspected abuse. That won't happen in the majority of cases but will happen at dealers who are pinching pennies.

 

Deny everything. Let the customers fight for the $.

Matt


And yes, I've read other posts where denials have come into play, usually followed by someone pointing out that thier dealer sold them some mods, and the second author sympathizing with the first author over the hassle of having a crappy dealer.

 

I have not yet seen one person post anywhere on NAM say that MINI should pay for the problems our modding causes. Please show me examples (provide links to the posts) of this. Clearly I'm missing something.

 

I think most people are realistic and don't expect the dealer to cover things obviously caused by mods. such as the aftermarket brakes and warped rotors. I think what we are mainly talking about the gray areas.

Example: window tinting, I DO NOT have tint, recently I had a window motor replaced and covered under warranty because in temps over 100deg and car parked in heat all day the window would not roll down until the a/c has been on a few min. IF i had tint I would believe there could have been contention over waranty coverage. I do not believe that tint would make any diffrence, but the dealer clearly would be standing on firm ground to deny warranty coverage. I would have encouraged them to maintain a good relationship with the customer, but at the end of the day I would quietly pay, because I knew this was a risk before I put the tint on, knowing if I had any window related problems I would be at thier mercy, knowing most dealers will not give me a problem but if they did I lost my bet, I would either have to pay quietly or pay then sue(option #2 and #3) also knowing that #3 is not worth the trouble unless it is a very costly repair

 

Yes, you are missing something. This entire thread is about MINI's denying warranty service in the face of modifying their automobiles to the detrement of the OEM parts. i.e. Plain and simple: some folks want their warranties to cover their mods when the mods cause damage to warranteed parts. I think it is fairly obvious what the implied expectation is: MINI should cover these costs of repair, i.e. pay for them, even when the car is modded. Maybe no one said the words "pay for problems" but it's not rocket science to extrapolate the meaning of "MINI has denied covering warranties." It's the same thing as saying "MINI won't pay for them!" Bottom line is: take responsibility for your own modifications that you choose to make on your MINI.

 

I've had my 04 modded and would accept the fact of a denial on a claim if it were reasonable, such as a fried clutch due to my mods and "spirited" driving. But, if denied I would consider a non-MINI installer to replace the part. I would not want to be gouged by the dealer who denied, that would be my right. I also would not stand by and be told that the defective paint finish or burned out windsheild wiper motor was not covered because I have a 15%pulley and CAI.

 

sure some do, but not those posting here. What we want (pretty universally) is FAIR TREATMENT! For the film and window motor, is the co-efficient of the film higher or lower than glass? Higher or lower than dirty glass? Just saying you made a change near a failed part isn't a proof of a causal link! The standards are higher. Not my opinion, but ITS THE LAW! Hell, I've been in the same block as some crimes occured. That doesn't mean that I did them!

And how can you even write that knowing full well (but maybe not thinking about it right now) that most of us mod our cars. Most don't stick with the OEM run-flats. Would you be satified if your dealer said "these have higher traction rating so all the loads on your car are higher. Your warrentee is void!" I don't think anyone would put up with that. Is the 0.7% differenc in pully diameter any different on engine load than stickier tires?

MOST of the post here have been about wanting to get UNRELATED failures covered when the dealer is using weak or non-existant causal links between mods and failures, in total disregard for federal law!

Here here! But unless you missed most of the points in the thread above, most posters aren't trying to hose Mini about mods. But Mini claiming a pully (almost exactly like what they sell on the works package) could have ANY EFFECT beyonds what the works pully did, is just BS unless the part were damaged. What most complain about here is not "I put a 250 shot of nitrous on the car, and now I want Mini to pay for my clutch" but more "Why should a CAI void a motor warrentee?", "What does window tinting have to do with power train issues" and the like. So your stated implied expectation may be obvious to you, but not me.

Fair treatment from a large corperation that has power to abuse customers. That what all this thread is about to me.

Matt

 

See, I think there is a fundemental idealogical devide here. I often have conversations that end up going down this road. I wish i ould coduct a poll and ask people how much of life is under their full control. I believe that most people think that >50% of circumstance is beyond their control. I believe that >90% of outcome of all things are under my full control. I am not a victim. A corporation holds no power over me.

I will reiterate our options as owners.....Our choice
1. leave it alone until warranty expires
2. mod it, and quietly pay for repairs
3. Sue sue sue, because you cant make the dealer repair the car. They will refuse, you will go to court and probably win but at what cost of time money and burned bridges.[/QUOTE]

Again, MOST dealers have a brain and will not deny warranty coverage for a window motor if you tinted windows. BUT, they could and that is a calculated risk, and if they do you knew the risk going in and you are left with option #2 and #3. I know that Dr. Obnoxious you would sue, as you have made clear because that is where Laws are handled. But I dont think most people want that hassle. So I would say if a mod makes you quite nervous about warranty coverage you better call your SA because he is the one that decides whether you are covered, whether you pay or whether you will serve him a subpeona.

 

Wow, I'm going to try keep my reply brief b/c I can see myself getting very immersed in this topic...

First (because recently mentioned), don't bank on anything an SA, or anyone says, including a mgr. If getting their input means that much to ya, get it writing then. I'm not saying they they cannot be trusted, but personnel change, and with that, so might the prevailing sentiment.

I have found that my dealer is very fair, so I feel fortunate in this regard. As some on here know, I've done my fair share of mods. At 32,000 or so miles, I'll be making an appointment regarding some oil at the base of my engine. I'm sure there are plenty of folks that would say or think that any repairs deemed necessary will be out of my pocket as I have a 15% pulley, intake, custom exhaust, and other goodies.

However, this is actually a problem for which I brought to their attention at 15k miles. Ironically, Randy Webb noticed this when he installed my 15% pulley a couple years ago. I dreaded going to the dealer with such a claim after such a mod, but after explaining, they believed me, and serviced it under warranty. Apparently it was the valve cover gasket...

Actually, from my experiences, dealerships also like aftermk mods for a couple reasons. It gives them less work to do, and saves on part replacement, such as air filters. And, they know full well that fast, good-looking MINI's are in their best interest for selling more. A couple neighbors in the canyon where I live have purchased MINI's simply because some cat & mouse on rural roads impressed them enough. Believe me, the mods have made a big difference on leaving impressions...

On another note, with regard to the JCW upgrade, increasing output is not without consequence as it relates to longevity. I would bet that MINI and the dealerships would admit to that, and in time, cars producing more boost and yielding more power will have more associated issues and generally not last as long as those stock MCS's. By saying that a 15% pulley is nearly the same as the JCW 14.3% is then not really germane to a discussion on failure because they know their pully will make for issues sooner as well. And to cover such costs, they simply charge more to provide what they feel to be adequate coverage for future issues that are likely to crop-up. Us guys who went to Pulley Parties didn't pay for this insurance .

Just wanted to share some thoughts...

 

I agree on all points, So in this case WE would all agree that the mods did not affect the gasket seal one bit. Maybe MOST dealers would see it that way. As you mentioned you knew going in that this could be a problem, Nobody likes puying out of pocket for things, But would you have been outraged if the dealer denied your claim?

I wouldn't be happy but I would not blame them for something that has been made complicated by my choice to mod. In my mind what you say at the end about insurance is spot on in my mind.

We self-insure when we put on the aftermarket mods (that concept is completely lost in this world now) We saved the money by going aftermarket, and that is our warranty reserve....or legal reserve

Just a wild thought here......I wonder how often the outrage at the dealer from warranty denial is really related to the financial tight rope that I think many people walk. when an unexpected bill (expect the unexpected) straps them financially this really gets people irritated, when if they had some savings around they would let this stuff roll off a little better.

 

Why keep saying that we all should throuw away our rights under federal law to meet what others think is the appropreate boundary of our rights. IT's not up to debate, it's law written in black and white.

Dealers SAYING mods caused problems does not meet the standard of FEDERAL LAW as proof. Is that a difficult concept?

Dega Vu, that uncanny feeling that you've experienced something before.....

And Tony, your right to a point, for some systems, increasing the drive energy has NOTHING to do with lifetimes, if you stay away from certain limits. Think spring steel. It doesn't work harden. Bend a feeler guage 5 degrees all day, all night. Do it 6 degrees and the life will be just as long. Go to the point that it bends permanantly, then it's hosed for good. So not all changes have a corresponding decrease in lifetimes. Depends on the system.

Matt