A month ago before I changed the oil I remember the oil level (dealer oil change) was clearly above the maximum metal bead, after I changed the oil I filled it just below the maximum metal bead so it wasn't overfilled. Could it be that the extra oil that the dealer put in made a difference?

 

How many *** cars have 15k plus oil service intervals with engines that hold 4.5qts of oil? The combination of crankcase ventilation design, LONG oil service intervals, and turbocharged engine all result in the necessity for the customer to follow the proper recommendations of the manufacturer for maintenance including fluid checks on a regular basis. BMW is aware of many things. One of the things it is obviously aware of is the lack of effort being made on the customer part to properly maintain their cars. I believe it is a MAJOR reason for the new models having new features such as 9k mile oil change intervals along with future models receiving an oil level sensor. They think it is so important for the customers to know about the new oil change intervals based on prior customer perception of the old maintenance schedules that they list it as a "feature" on new window stickers. A smart manufacturer will never put the "blame" on the customer without expecting very bad repercussions. It seems BMWs way of addressing the issue is to minimize impact by coming up with a more cost effective "solution" to the problem of customer perception than running everybody off. Costs a lot less to pay for a few more oil changes than to account for the losses people will cost by choosing a different car mfgr. I have a few answers to your cause of "torque" depending on what version of the word you mean. I would be happy to give you my insight on that if you let me know what you meant by "torque".
As for the dealer "overfill" theory..... the engine oil capacity is not an issue with the engine causing the dealer to add more oil than the capacity actually is. IMO, if a dealer is adding more oil than what they should be, it's an attempt to minimize the impact on the customer if/when the engine oil level starts dropping and the customer is paying no attention to it. It's damage control sort of. I would however advise that overfilling an engine with oil can be massively more damaging to it than underfilling it. Along with the likelihood of catalytic converter damage. (please don't ask what the correlation between oil level and cat is....it's a long explanation The primary reason for the N12 engine not having as many timing chain issues in the long term is because they do not tend to drop engine oil level nearly as bad or fast as the N14 engine so oil volume and pressure is less likely of an issue. Plus the N12 engine has way less stress on rotating assemblies due to simply it's low power output. Which is more likely to have issues if all build tolerances are the same..... 100 hp engine, or one double that? Same principle applies. The oil level issues will effect N12 engines but in the way of running concerns, check engine lights, and stalling due to lack of oil pressure to properly time both cams-VANOS rotation.

 

sorry....didn't know that the short or Japanese would make ***. I didn't mean it offensively. Just lazy typing.

 

I assume this response is to my post above. For starters, I don't know how prevalent owner neglect maintenance is for Minis, but you would think that figure is much lower on an enthusiast forum. I didn't see people with timing chain failures coming out and saying 'but oh yeah, I haven't checked my oil for 15,000 miles so I don't even know if oil's in the car'. Whether they would admit that or not is a different story, but I highly doubt for all of these failures every single one of them drove their cars *long enough without maintenance* to consume that amount of oil.

Dealers overfill cars because they are lazy. This statement obviously varies based on the dealership, but they do not care about what fails and what doesn't. They're not gonna take the time to make sure the oil is where it needs to be - they just put in the amount they're "supposed" to.

Like I said before though - if these cars are burning through oil that quickly, there would be other symptoms and other things going wrong. Whenever I don't have time to do my own oil on the evo, I give whoever's doing the work 4 quarts (as 5 will overfill) and then I drive the car around the block and top off to close to full. As you mentioned, especially regarding turbocharged cars, overfilling is way worse for the car than under, depending on the extremity.

As far as your "torque" comment, I meant as you were saying near the end of your post - base coopers simply don't make the power that the S's do, and don't stress the components as much, including the timing chain. That was just my initial assumption on the matter.

I'm not saying this isn't an issue of owner neglect, I'm just saying I find it hard to believe that these failures stem from these cars consuming that much oil, whatever the recommended OCI is... and you're also implying that either yes, the engine consumes all of its oil even during the recommended interval, or the majority of owners with a timing chain failure are going far far beyond what the interval is - which one is it?

 

I agree and posted about the subject of "torque" in the meaning of engine power output. The other "torque" I was implying to was the tightening torque of the timing chain tensioner. Most of the valid engine timing chain issues on very early N14s were due to timing chain tensioners backing off due to lack of tightening torque caused by the material the tensioner seal rings were made of. As far as other symptoms...there are. Carbon being the biggest symptom and since you're new to this car, if you haven't heard about carbon problems on the N14, you will soon. Others include stalling because of lack of oil pressure to the intake cam for VANOS adjustment (valve timing), and check engine light from monitoring this cam timing. The other presumption I want you to be aware of is that you are assuming that this car is "consuming" the oil. The N14 has had a history of countless oil leaks that would easily cause 1-2qts low in the sump. Which will cause the timing chain issues. Timing chain tensioiner, oil pan gaskets, front crank seals, turbocharger oil feed lines, oil filter housing gasket, vacuum pump dumping oil into the vacuum chamber (approx. .5qt capacity), valve cover gasket, just to name a few. So please don't think I'm implying that these engines all "consume" all of this oil. They do consume, but there are a lot of other reasons the oil level gets low on the N14.
About the dealer being lazy, don't ever assume everyone everywhere is just lazy. It simply isn't true. Most of the time, it's policy. Not so much with this, but with a lot of the things that annoy people about the dealer. I know a lot of people who work at the dealer who I wouldn't think twice about giving my car to before my wife and child drove it across the country. Peoples perception of the dealer is simply based on money. I have rarely met anyone who thought an independent was better than every dealer based on experience instead of money.
Lastly, customers driving beyond their due OCI and believing they do no harm happens ALL THE TIME. Doesn't matter what the car.

 

Thanks for the info. I did hear about the carbon buildup, but I had assumed that was related to the S's being DI. Didn't know the other symptoms were as prevalent.

I did mention in the previous post, but I said the oil had to be going somewhere - either it would be consuming (blue smoke out the exhaust), OR that there would be leaks - either the floor, or in intercooler piping, wherever. I would think that either would be cause for concern to any kind of auto consumer, but especially one that was on a Mini forum. Sorry for the "lazy" comment (though it is true for many), I just meant for one reason or another, each oil change a dealer does is not metered out to take the oil level to the exact full level.

For the maintenance questions, I am kind of directing them at people in this thread who have had the failures - I've looked through, and sure there are some who go well beyond OCI etc, but many who have had the failures and posted about it through these forums don't seem to be the type... especially those who are aware

 

This is true, but the reality is that even if changed at 15k, the oil level will not be at the proper level if never checked. It's the simple truth. And that's why the need to do regular oil level checks. It's simple, quick, and can save someone thousands of dollars.
The carbon is I guess what you could call "due to" the direct injection. But what it simply is is since the intake ports and back of the intake valves never get fuel "cleaned" so to speak from passing fuel, condensation and oil deposits create this carbon build up. There is nothing wrong with the direct injection or it's design, just simply the result of having no cleaning agent in the intake ports that allow the carbon to build.

 

hello mini lovers..!! can someone post a video with the normal engine sound from a mini r56 jcw please??because im confused how my engine should sound.. thanks

 

This is my daugher and son-inlaws car. They towed their 2007 Cooper S to the dealer for a cold start chain noise under warranty at 43000 miles 2 years ago. She was told it was low on oil and normal. It was only down 1/2 qt. I am a master mechanic with 35 years experience on German and Honda cars and knew better. 20000 miles between services is too long so it has been serviced every 8000-10000 miles. Being a turbo we knew it would use oil so we have always been careful. We continued to watch and it always got quiet within 10-15 seconds. Sure enough the tensioner failed and the chain jumped time bending the exhaust valves at idle, at 73000 miles. The dealer agreed to look at it and said it needed an engine due to piston and rod damage, without even pulling off the head. They quoted $7500 with Mini Corp picking up $1000. My son inlaw who also is a master mechanic said no and towed it back home. We were hoping Mini would step up because it is a known problem and we complained under warranty. We took it apart, replaced the exhaust valves and timing chain componets. There was no damage to the pistons or rods. It runs fine except under boost, setting a code P115d. It took a while but we found that the clip holding the fresh air intake tube near the throttle body was missing causing the tube to pop out under boost. It had been removed at the dealer and thrown in a bag with the broken timing chain guide. The car runs great again.
We hope this story will help.

 

+2
(I've had it replaced twice now.)

 

Welp my mine just died because of this........ 2007 Mini Cooper S

 

You mean your engine is toast or just the timing chain assembly? Also if you could list your mileage and as much info as possible that would help other's and myself. How often did you check your oil? Did your Cooper burn oil and how often did you need to add oil between oil changes? How often did you do oil changes (ie. every 3000 miles?) These questions can be very helpful in estimating a possible cause for the failure!

My Mini Cooper S needs one quarter of oil every 300-500 miles, the oil vapors must be entering the combustion chamber through the poorly designed PCV system. Do yourself a favor, after driving for awhile remove your oil cap and see the oil vapors escape. That is what's going into your engine through the PCV system.

 

It happened last night while driving on the highway home from work. Luckily I was in the slow lane and was alright. I totally lost power then when the flatbed came we saw the oil puddle under the car. Went to our garage today to look at it. A bolt holding the chain in place failed, at least that's what we think happened.... but it is toast I am looking for a new engine right now to replace it. 86k I check oil about every week and was always down. Oil changes about every 3-4 months mobile one of course.

 

There's a lawsuit on this issue so you might want to wait on repairing it.

BMW Mini Cooper Class Action

 

My 2009 Cooper S with 30k miles just got its timing chain replaced. I think I got it before things got too bad because it was turned around in a day along with service.

A little weirded out because my fuel economy went up 4 mpg. They said they did a software update as part of the replacement. Not sure whether its the chain replacement, secondary fixes or the software resulting in the fuel economy change.

 

Ford is recalling almost half a million of its cars because it had received 600 complaints. 465,000 cars because of 600 complaints! Meanwhile, MINI seems to be a bit less responsive.

 

Small difference: The Ford recall is for a fuel leak--a safety concern, because fires can be very bad for your health. They're not recalling the cars just because the motor could blow. Fairly few car companies will issue recalls for anything other than things that have a serious potential to cause injury or death.

Kind of sad, but it's the way of the world.

 

Ford has a history of people being burned alive in Pinto's & Crown Vic's. I think they are rather sensitive to possible fires.

 

Lately I have been hearing pinging/knocking noises at 1800 rpms shortly after warm-up in every gear some of the time, this is after the timing chain rattle at startup for a few seconds in cold or hot weather. I also heard pinging/knocking noises at 4000+ rpms on hard acceleration under boost.

I get the feeling that my timing chain tensioner doesn't always extend as far as it should causing these fast repeating loud clicks or knocks. Gas milage in the city is average 25.6 MPG and performance is great! If my timing chain tensioner isn't extending all the way would I still have full HP and good fuel mileage?

 

That and the cruise control module on explorers and rangers could catch fire for a few years.

 

You could still have full performance with a loose chain. The noise could be the chain slapping on the plastic guides and chewing them up. I'd take it in an have the chain slack measured to see if it is within spec. If not, fix it now so you do not have a catastrophic failure. If it is within spec, check to see if you have the correct tensioner installed. Even if it is the correct one, the cost of replacing it is only the part cost because the tensioner is already out to take the measurement.

 

A shame that that sensitivity hasn't got around to all the manufacturers...

Http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/business/s...l-refusal.html

I'd hate to be the 1 in a million failure... They do happen don't cha know!
E

 

Based on the little bit of information in the article, I tend to side with Chrysler on that one.

 

how can I measure this at home? Car is at San Antonio Euro right now, but doesn't sound like they've done anything with it. All I got was that they listened to it and then the mechanic had to go to a meeting. Been there 9 hours and no answers. Wonder if I'm chasing my tail on this one.
Car has 63k miles, but only 800 of them are by me and I don't know the full service history unfortunately to know if anything has been replaced.

I saw a kit that included the measuring bolt, but the whole kit was 300. Do you need the whole kit just to measure the tension? Wondering if I should just have the shop measure regardless of what they hear. I recorded it on cold start so I could play it for the shop, but they weren't interested in listening to it. Sounds like another day of having to share cars and getting no answers...

This is the kit, do you need the whole thing just to check tension measurement?
http://www.promini.com/product-exec/...arch_model/100

here's a youtube link to my car on cold start (sitting for about 7 hours)

If someone who's had experience with this thinks its worth the 200 up front for it to be tore down and measured, I might just go that route.

 

You can buy the tool separate. Do some googling. iirc it is like 30 dollars or so.