All you block-heads, need some pointers.

I usually do my own oil - it's simple enough. However, last week I dropped it off at a quick-lube place to get done since I had no time to get to it before a trip this weekend.

They used my oil and filter, and the MINI sat in it's spot until the day of the trip. I did not notice anything directly after getting the oil done - it was a short trip and dark out.

The day of the trip, the better-half took us down the road. Were gonna stop at a certain Chicken place for breakfast, and while waiting in the drive-thru I noticed my oil light come on. So I tell her to take us back, immediately.

By the time we got back, the oil like would go out at higher-revs, but came on at lower, and one or two valves clacking BADLY.

So, looking for thoughts on the engine - NOT what to do with the people that did the oil. I'll get to them.

What chance do I have on undoing whatever they did? If I fill it back up, what likelihood are the valves damaged or toast? The engine temp didn't get hot, so the head gasket and such should be fine. I haven't looked at it yet, but I suspect either the rubber ring wasn't put back on the oil filter cap, or they didn't tighten it down all the way, since that's where all the oil came out.

If something's permanently damaged, what would need to be done? A complete overhaul? Or just a 'valve job'? Etc. I know wnough to do simple work, but I'm aware this is out of my area.

Cheers all,
Mike

 

A big mistake was made by not shutting down the engine immediately when the oil light came on. The only way to find out how much damage was done is stop the leak, top it off with oil, and see what it sounds like. I suggest that you take some photos of the oil leak and the dip stick to show to the people who changed your oil. They have insurance and may cover the cost of your engine rebuild. Chances are you did some engine damage. Lessons learned; do your own oil changes or take it so someone who you trust to change it properly. Regardless of who changes the oil, I always check oil level shortly after I've changed it. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

It's more likely that you starved a bearing than did any valve damage......

However, I also would make damn sure you have proof that it was like this, and notify the store that did the work immediately, you need to get on record with them on this.

I promise you, it's not the first engine they had to buy because someone in their employ did something stupid.

 

Sailorboy is spot on. You should have killed the engine immediately as oil starvation will kill an engine quickly. I would definitely be on their doorstep complaining and find a MINI specialist (or dealer) to do some health checks on the engine.

RECORD EVERYTHING!!!! If you have a phone conversation with them, create a log with date and time of call and a summary of the conversation. You may need this later.

 

I have posted this so many times here before concerning these places I have lost count - Sorry to hear about what happend.

These quickie lubes will not pay for a new engine unfortunately, and they will take into consideration what mileage you have on the car and will only pay for the estimate residual value of the engine.....if they pay anything at all esp since you supplied the filter.....Some cars/trucks even leave their engine bays w/o any oil at all....drive 1/2 block and bam....

These lube places are natorious for destroying engines and have been for years. Basically their customers cars are serviced by kids making 8 bucks an hour, and when these kids are ready to go out the door and quit for whatever reason, IMO somtimes this is their way of getting back their bosses or management as the kid is held harmless and beyond reproach.....

There should be warning decals on our cars about going to places like this.

Hope it all works out for ya.

 

Thanks guys!

I have pics and docs and a witness that the engine was fine before taking it there. Living in the DC area now, I have plenty of laywers to help me there.

I KNEW I should have killed the engine - here's the idiot me on that:
I've always done my own oil after the initial services/warranty period save for two - this last time all hell broke out. The FIRST time the place forgot to replace the small tube in the filter, so when the car was idling the light would come on.

The first time this freaked me out and I called the dealership. The service adviser (whom I knew very well at the time) said not to worry - just get it replaced as soon as possible. He said that the pressure was just low enough to set the alarm but the engine was still getting oil.

So when I took it in this time, I pointed out to be SURE to replace it.

When we left Friday morning, it was fine and when I saw the light come on while idling, I told her to head back, and as she released the clutch, the light went out. At the time - and the whole ride back, I wasn't worried - I had FIGURED the idiots there just didn't put that back in.

It wasn't until I got out of the car and heard the noise that I freaked. Lemme tell you, a 33-year old guy freaking out at 8am on a Friday morning was probably fun entertainment for my neighbors.

So, I have the issue with the place handled - I'd LIKE to have it looked at by a dealer, but that's what my main purpose of posting here was -

I'm wondering if it's okay to take it into the dealership, or if that would cause more issues/make it worse. Because of my weekend trip (and the snow up here while I was gone) I haven't seen the root cause of it yet, and won't be contacting the store that did it until I find out.

Thanks guys!
Mike.

 

I'd bet money from the length of time it took for the oil to leak out that they put the new O-Ring on the filter cap on the wrong notch (or perhaps did not use it!!! There are a few posts about owners doing this, and then catching a pretty bad leak very soon afterwords!!
Not shutting off the car when the light first flickered...big mistake. Driving it home...oww.
You might get a thousand or two bucks from their ins company if you are lucky....might off set the cost of buying a used motor or donor car that has been rear ended for a new motor.
How many miles on your current motor? Like Raven said....that will likely determine how much money they give you to try to make you "whole". A bonanza it will not be at best. At worst, they will assign you 50%-85% liability, or just get the labor cost back!!! Since you supplied the part, and the oil, and did not shut off the car ASAP, it is possible their Ins might not cover this event at all....time for small claims, as it would cost too much too sue in a regular court!!
But before we all go off half cocked here....have you found the problem?!
Seals, gaskets, or oil pumps can go in catastrophic manners, blocks can crack.......causing the problem you describe.....so until we know the cause, all the above is just speculation.
IMO since the motor was run...most likely dry....are you feeling lucky? Maybe the bearings, etc are ok, and you only reduced the motors life by heating them up a bit, but did not scarr them....Fill the car up with oil...documenting everything, find the leak, fix the problem, and start it. See what it sounds like. If all sounds OK, cross your fingers, and drive. If it runs like crap, knocks, etc, I'd most likely just get a good used motor...the cost of an overhaul would likely be much more.
I am not a mechanic, but heck....the motor did not seize up, so you MIGHT be OK. Good Luck!!

 

Just so you are aware of this....if you bring it to the dealer, the problem will be permanently documented in the BMW/MINI system, and you will NEVER get a future problem fixed under warrenty/goodwill unless they fix it 100%. Also future trade0in value may be impacted, even if there is no damage, since the car will never be called MINI certified with this black mark.

I would flat-bed it to anywhere you get the car worked on. Period!!

 

Hey all, just got back from poking at it - Zippy called it. The gasket was put on the wrong notch/groove/whatchamacall it. When I took the filter cover off, the gasket was torn.

However, I will note that with 240k miles on it, I do not care about resale value, nor it ever being MINI "certified". My goal was to motor in it until I drove it 'into the ground'. I'm just hoping that I didn't meet the ground that hard! :D (Also note that there are no mods done to the engine. The closest mod would be the exhaust system, cat-back.)

So, final question. I'm going to put the oil filter on (correctly) and re-fill it. Since the engine was sitting for the weekend, when I start it should I do anything special? (i.e. In my GF's '89 Cavalier, they always told us that best practice would be to pour some oil in the rocker cover.)

Thanks all, we'll see what happens.
-Mike

 

Since you appear to be near Atlanta.....You could give WayMotorWorks a call They are down near the Peachtree/DeKabb airport (PDK) on the north side of the city....He could give you some sound advise...maybe fix it if it needs work, or maybe do a motor swap worst case....he is a great guy...and a great vendor...He is a very well respected MINI mechanic and knows these motors backwards and forwards. He might be able to give you the bets advise of all!!

 

Your engine is fine. I had a catastrophic oil leak due to a damaged oil cooler and lost all but a half a quart of oil. The idiot light only flashed briefly and stayed off. My engine sounded like a diesel. After fixing the leak and filling up with oil it was fine once the oil circulated back through.

Subsequent oil samples sent to a lab found little trace of engine damage and none after more changes.

 

Kind of a large assumption there.... Not knowing how much oil was missing and not actually getting to where it needs to get would make it hard to say if it is fine or not. Zippy probably has the best advice to get it looked at

or

You can refit the filter and top it off then drive it until it dies. You may never have another problem or it could seize 20 ft from your house.

 

240,000 miles

Would love to hear that Nabeshin's assessment is correct. That would be a great testament as to the durability to these Brazillian engines. Nothing ventured nothing gained so what do you have to lose with 240K miles on the odometer.

Worse case scenerio is that you have to drop in a used motor from Way. ( Which I am pretty sure he has one or two )

Keep us posted.

 

My first thought too Will.....esp with the tollerances of German designed engines....

 

I dont know... My FSAE team was able to run a CBR 600 engine for over an hour with no oil pressure before one of the cams finally snapped... Having seen what the engine looks afterwords, most of the damage came from ingestion of dust (that engine never saw an air filter), melting of a piston due to a lean condition, and of course the piston crashing into the valves left hanging our in the open when one of the cams snapped in half. The bearings where pretty shot, but the two cylinders that hadnt melted or snapped valves seemed to be in pretty decent condition. All I am saying is all hope is not lost, but the only way to know for sure is to tear the engine down.

 

Mike, you need to make sure that they didn't throw out the plastic center in the filter housing. That's what most quick lube places do.

 

Hey guys,
Thanks for the comments. And the stories about engines dying agonizing deaths.

Spent the rest of yesterday looking at it, talking to my local Mini shop and putting it back together.

Here's what happened:
They did NOT forget the center plastic/tube thing like I had originally thought. (And drove the engine home because of!) Instead, they placed the gasket one notch up (towards the threads) than they were supposed to. This covered a port/flow access hole, it appears, and once the oil got hot enough, it weakened the gasket enough to have it snap. This is when the oil started leaking out.

I spoke to my local dealership after talking to you guys, and the head tech (I was able to get him on his lunch break) said to go ahead and fill it up, put a new filter/gasket on, and fire it up. He said that if it seizes, it would do it at my place or the dealership, wouldn't matter where it was and if it did, they wouldn't be able to do anything with it anyways. He said to let it run for 5-10 minute to get the oil semi-warm and moving and keep listening to it.

So, that all done, I fired her up, hands shaking. She started right up. A *single* clicking could still be heard, and as it idled it got slightly quieter. By the time I shut her off, it was hard to make out unless you knew what you were listening for.

(For the legal side of it, I got all things in order, will be talking to the shop this week and will get a lawyer in waiting if needed.)

Way - I didn't call you mainly because I am 680 miles away, and didn't think it'd be very respectful to call you for information when I wasn't going to be able to let you look at it. If I was still down there, you bet your bazooka you'd have it right now! :D

Zippy - I don't live near Atlanta anymore, unfortunately I'm in the DC area. Moved about three months ago, need to update my profile here.

 

Ah, addition:

Also, I'll note that other than replacing spark plugs, air filter changes, two belt changes and an alternator change - all things not directly related to the engine block itself - nothing's ever been done to the engine. Heck, the fuel injectors are original and never been cleaned. Other than having a lot of gas shot through them. Throttle's original too, tho at one point it was going to get replaced do to codes being thrown that turned out to be a pinched wiring harness.

 

So my assumption was correct. Your description of the re-oiling process is exactly what I had heard. There is still a faint click, but you can only hear this when outside the car. It has gone 40,000 hard miles since without issues, with all Blackstone Lab reports comming up clean.

 

The point is that I wouldn't tell someone to simply top it off and then don't worry about it especially when you don't know how much oil was missing and how far the OP drove it.

Frankly I would have forced the company to pay to have some health checks done on the engine. There likely is damage there but it may not be something that doesn't show for a while, good luck getting them to pay later. Sorry, but I still don't agree with what you said. Oil starvation is bad stuff and further running the engine without getting it looked at could cost bigger money in the future.

 

Aww....it not about being right.....it just depends on how conservative the owner wanted to be. If he was on his second or 3rd MINI to get to his 250,000+, he could have had a lot less miles!! Or perhaps he prefered not to take chances...we just don't know!!
The right course of action for one, is not the same for another!!
Perhaps this is one case where a well seasoned, high mile "loose" motor might have been good to have!! So far, knock on wood, it sounds like the car survived!!

 

I like your way of thinking!! But in this case it looks like the $$ for such a high mile motor would have been pretty small. But this entire situation does bring up some great points.......about oil change joints....heck it has happened to some owners who have DIY's it!!
The important thing is that it appears to have come to a good ending for everybody!!
Crap happens....and then you have to compost it and make fertilizer!!!

 

random comments

- the one time I left an oil change with no oil in the pan it was from the dealer . . . I discovered this when the light came on 500 yards from the dealer and I suspect I drove another 2 minutes getting back to the dealer. "Sorry, he says he got distracted...." I drove this car for another 75,000 miles and know the guy who bought it .... no damage and still going strong at 100,000 since the event.

- SOME quicky places are set up to allow you to watch the work ... one I used for a time always brought me out to the car when they were done and pulled the dip stick for me to check b4 leaving. They R not all the same . . .

- the MINI's funky (BMW'esk?) paper insert makes going to a quicky place a very risky business in my opinion. AND an experienced home jock can also be cornfused by this ancient system .... I busted the o-ring trying to get the can back on once and ended up spilling a quart+ in my garage b4 I saw my problem. Heck ... my 79 uses a spin on filter why can't MINI

- I think I'd be more comfortable taking my 79 to a quicky place then I would be the 2 or 7


random rants

 

In my opinion, BMW uses the funky filter to discourage diy oil changes. Get the mini in the service bay and find more things wrong. It's all about the $$$ baby.

Kevin

 

Ah, that part of the story isn't finished yet! I'm calling the oil place this evening to talk to the manager, and the car goes into the dealership Monday. (The only reason I've been messing with it before taking it down there is.. well.. sitting still and not doing anything freaking drives me crazy. I can't do that. In regards to ANYTHING, not just my MINI. )