Well, here we go again! I have just experienced another catastrophic engine failure, this time in my '05 MCS with 75K. I was driving home and suddenly heard a ticking, which turned into a clunking and then bang. Grenaded a piston right thru the side of the block. Thiis car has been dealer maintained and just got back from a 75K service check only week before.

The other failure that occured was on my son's '03MCS which threw a rod bearing last year at only 67K, also maintained by the same dealer. In 34 years of driving BMW's I have never experienced a major internal engine failure, of any type, either on the street or during my years of racing BMW's.

Has anyone else been experiencing these types of failures at this mileage level??

My dealer said they talked to Mini and can offer me a new short block for $3800. Some deal, huh!

Question is, What do we do now?? I now have two relatively low mileage MCS's in my shop with blown engines.

I have already alerted the dealers service manager that I want to have a meeting with a BMW/Mini rep of some sort to discuss this issue. Not knowing what I know, I would suspect some sort of 'self destruct' sequence occuring at this mileage.

What are the odds of me owning two MCS's, an '03 and an '05, both dealer maintained, no mods whatsoever and both blowing engines at 75K and less??

Any hints from experience on how to handle this?? I am not letting this go at all, no matter what. Who should I be getting in touch with?? Believe it or not the dealer told me to call Mini Customer Service, yeh right!

One thing I do know is that I would never by another Mini again, even after buying three since '03 (the '05 replaced a '03 that we bought with the other '03 previously mentioned).

Thanks guys,

Tom in PA (NW PA)

 

I wouldnt rule out buying another, keep in mind the engine in everything since 07 is completely different.

Throwing a rod through the block strikes me as something that would only happen if the engine was really abused. How was the car driven?

 

but really, really unlikely. Work the system, and see what you can get from them. Sad thing is that a discount short block from them would be a complete eBay engine, or a long way to a motor built by an aftermarket tuner that would put out a lot more than the stock engine.

You'd still need a rebuildable short block though.

this is most odd.

Matt

 

Well 75K and 67K are not exactly low mileage numbers (average 17.5K a year) on the '05. Not excessive numbers, but the question really is how were those miles put on? Lets face it supercharged engines are not guaranteed to be trouble free for the long haul. If you use them hard they can and will break, so how were they driven? I had a BMC A 1000cc pushrod engine in a Lotus 7 America. I routinely twisted that rascal 7500 rpm, even a few turns at 8K, yeah on occasion it broke but it was expected that could happen. All you can say is it was fun while it lasted.

 

I was driving home at 50mph when it threw the rod through the block. The cars have been driven but not abused. As far as supercharged engines not guaranteed to be trouble free, I don't agree. These cars were both semi daily drivers, never over revved, maintained by the dealer and should last longer than 75K, period, whether you want to call it low or high mileage.

**** poor engineering and or manufacturing if you ask me.
And then look at the '03 that first ate a rod bearing. A bearing set is $800+ for a set of 4! I can rebuild a BMW Big 6 for that kind of money.

It just sucks that in this day and age you can have this happen to a street car.

Thanks guys,

Tom in PA

 

If the engineers had gotten a number like that wrong though all of our engines would be breaking (or be way over built). I'd be curious to know where the con-rod snapped, that could tell you a lot about what the cause of the failure was. Given that so many MINI's on this board running higher boost pressures than stock (along with the many other stock MINI's) this doesnt strike me as an engineering issue do much as a QC issue.

My memory is being flaky, are the con rods in our engine forged or cast? I should probe the material science guy on my school's FSAE team a little more on casting and forging.

 

Tom,
This is just my opinion but I would have to be suspicious of the quality of the dealer service. Two engines in less than a year with the common thread being dealer maintenance. That is just plain unacceptable. Things happen. Engines mysteriously run out of oil or break internal parts. But what if the oil being used was sub-par. Who knows. This is just a bad and expensive situation.
Did you have an oil pressure gauge?

 

+ 1, something with the dealer does not seem right, I would for sure have the oil sent out and checked.
My father in law had this exact same thing happen to him at a Toyota dealer, the engine blew when the dealer did a service, and he then had to buy another car. Car was 5 years old with 53K on it and only used around town as he is retired and in his 80s.
Just my opinion, But I worked for a Porsche only shop for many years, and we use to get all the customers that were pissed off at the dealers cause they new they were being ripped off. You may want to check with the better business people and see if they have some type of history with this sort of thing.

 

Usually when a rod breaks block goes, no place for the broken rod to exit. Something very wrong happened.

I will question the type of oil you are using. Overtime there is a need to change the oil, the oil viscosity is at fault.

Downshift into 3rd at speed, but catch 1st gear instead of 3rd. Engine mechanically is driven into over-rev by the transmission (no PCM fuel-cut to save the engine from over-speeding) and the pistons hit the valves and bend them to hell and gone.

I'm sure S pistons/rods are forged, you can't just break the rod unless some catastrophic thing happened.

The breakthrough of the technology came in a long way due to engine tolerance & better oil composition.
75k miles in todays standard is not a lot, otherwise the Japanese & Koreans will all be laughing.

 

You feel it's the vehicle. That may be true. Common elements, besides vehicles, (and oil?) are people. Dealer, drivers? Your situation is very unfortunate, but it is also very unusual. Just look through all these threads, the R53 is a pretty damn bulletproof engine, in spite of the fact that probably nearly everyone here has wound theirs out at least once, that's what the car asks you to do. Blower motors are pretty rugged on the bottom end. I am very suspicious about the oil quality/quantity installed @ your service. Do you check the level?
Not pointing any fingers, but is it possible, just possible, that your son/somebody has engaged in some high rpm fun along the way? Tough as they are overrevving is overrevving and as has been pointed out jamming the wrong gear at speed will put you in the stratosphere in a second, regardless of limiter. Also,I've had an overstressed motor put up with abuse in the moment but let go later in gentler use.
I'm on my third Mini, also w/two 03s, and while I have my issues in other departments the basic motor has never come to question. Hope you can resolve this well.

 

I thought the MCS engine was a non-interference design - so an over rev should not tag the values.

Kevin

 

The gentleman mentioned rods letting go, in which case all bets are off, not only can valves be emphatically tagged but the motor can blow itself a new...hmm, drain hole.

 

If I'm not mistaken (someone can correct me), over-reviving does not care if the engine is interference or non-interference. Over-reviving simply out of computation, piston & valve will clash (similar to setting the car wrong @ TDC).
Valve float is where the valves bounce back open after closing and in the most minor case causes compression loss at high RPM, in medium cases it causes burnt valves, and in extreme cases usually in interference engines the pistons hit the valves and either bend them or cause other valve-train damage.
Also....
When you mechanically over-rev your motor beyond this point, the fuel will be cut out, and stay that way. Fuel won't be cut back in until the RPM drop back below the limiter's lower point.

 

I think I'd take it to a good independant shop and have them pull the pan, look in and see what they can learn, then take a sample of the oil and send it to a lab and see what you find. I seriously doubt it's due to the quality of the oil the dealership is using, but there have been more than a few cases of a tech not getting a drain plug tight or forgetting to add new oil after draining the old. This sounds like what could have happened in the '03, but two different cars? Did you do something to **** off a tech or SA at this dealership? (just kidding)

You'll need this info if you are going to pursue any type of action with either the dealer or MINI. Just going in and yelling without any facts probably won't do you any good.

Please keep us informed of what happens.....

 

Hmm... Something seems fishy... after over 6 years of following these cars, the bottom of the R50/53 engine has a reputation for being pretty stout. I agree the dealer service sounds suspect... of course, that's damn hard to prove... then again, one reason why my cars are rarely serviced by anyone but me... in the case of my TDI: only by me.

 

Please, I am not pointing any fingers here, never, but can you fill us in about:

Did either engine have any history of using oil?

If so, how much?

When they blew, how much oil was in them, assuming the hole in the oil pan or side of block didn't immediately drain anything left?

You say you had all oil service done by the dealer per the count down oil thing on the dash? If so, the oil may have had a lot of miles on it...right?

Every see the oil pressure light come on, even flicker, at any time.

Every run the engine dry of oil in the past?

Had you checked the oil level at any time closely prior to the blow up... just trying to see if the failure was oil related.

Any info would be much appreciated... just adding info to my personal knowledge base.

My thinking (obvious from my questions) is that you suffered oil starvation.

YD

 

I'm pretty sure you are mistaken. By definition, in a non-interference engine, when the valves are fully extended they don't overlap with the top of the stroke of the piston. That's why they don't get trashed when the timing belt slips. So no matter how high you rev the engine, there's no way the valves can contact the piston.

I'm no expert either, so if my correction is incorrect, please correct me.

 

If you over-rev an engine at a high enough rpm like in missing a shift you can float the valves & they can & will hit the pistons. Even on a non-interference engine.

 

Here is the latest news, hot off the wire, so to speak. After a long discussion with my dealer and his long discussion with BMW/Mini they have come to a decision to replace the engine free of charge. The dealer got BMW/Mini to pony up more dollars and the dealer is taking care of the rest. This is why I go to these guys.........they are in it for the customer.

As for an oil issue, nobody is talking in detail about what they found during the tear down at the dealer. I keep asking and no ones wants to either give a straight answer or just avoids the issue. I am just glad it's getting fixed.

Maintainence was just performed as I stated earlier a few weeks prior with no indication of oil consumption etc. No lights have ever come on at any time. Oil service performed per dealer intervals as required along with any other service. I doubt we will ever know the answer.

Thanks for all the help guys................now if I could only find a good source for bearings I can get the other car up and running, no that I have the time.

Tom in PA

 

PUSH for an explanation of what happened.

It sounds like someone had a "DOH" moment while performing service and the tear-down PROVES IT.

If a tech "forgot" to replenish the oil when performing an oil change...THAT is something that would be important to know.

 

Agreed - if they had found something in the tear down that indicated it was anything but their fault, they would probably NOT be eating the cost. I'd push hard to find out what happened - so that you know whether or not you can safely continue to use them for service, and so you know for your peace of mind what really went wrong!

 

they're doing it for free. Be happy with that. If it was systemic at the dealer, then tons of cars would have grenaded. If it was a one time "oh shiiit!" then it's a "teachable moment" and I'm sure someone is doing some learning! If they're just splitting the cost over a long time BMW/MINI customer to buy happiness, that's good too.

One other point. Even if the dealer service intervals were strictly followed, most Minis need some topping up of the oil over the long intervals that the computer calculates.

Anyway, congrats on your engine!

Matt

for bearing info, contact Jan, Keith, Way or Mike. These guys all dig pretty deep into the engines and may have some interesting options for your...

 

I'm with the good Doctor on this. Be very thankful that the engine is being replaced for free. Don't rock the boat.

You are very lucky, now go out & buy a lottery ticket.

 

Good to see they are helping you out!! It sounds like a very odd situation....so many people make much more power than stock with no problems....sounds kinda like a lot of turbo owners (non-mini) that had a severe detonation event before the days before anti-knock sensors, resulting in the motor blowing up (not to try to scare anybody, but this is STILL a common problem in some piston airplane engines like the Continental GTSIO-520 series)!! I really HOPE that you had some good 91+ octane fuel in the tank!! Good luck!

 

Another vote for Dr. O. Anybody can make a mistake, I've found tools in my engine bay that mechanics left behind, spark plugs just finger tight, etc. The important thing is that they're taking care of you. You could take your car elsewhere, but there's no guaranty they won't screw up, and they may not be as willing to stand behind their work.