Fuel pump replacement isn't covered under warranty because of "bad gas"?
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,390
Likes: 3
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
It still should be covered
Hi Bigshot,
Christifrog said that the gas came from a Shell Station. The manufacturer of the Mini fuel pump knows well enough that gas fluctuates in quality all over the world. Even if Christyfrog put in additives to clean the injecters etc. The fuel pump should not fail. I'm sure the pump manufacturer will cover the pump for the dealer (MINI).
I'm sure there are plenty of Mini Coopers in Mexico and the gas in most of the country of Mexico is really bad. I have been all over Mexico on my Harley and even when the bike ran bad the gas did not destroy the engine or carborator.
Shell gas is a very good brand and if that gas was screwing up more cars then one little Mini I would think differently. It only seemed to affect one car.
The dealer should have just fixed the car and not made a big deal out of a bad pump.
I only use Mini oil so if I got a bad batch I would still expect Mini to repair my car.
If I had a bulge or a defect in a tire the manufacturer would replace it. If I ran over a nail or something it would not be covered under warrenty.
Some things will just wear out but a FUEL PUMP? No way with less then 50,000 miles should a fuel pump stop working.
If the car was out of warrenty it would have to be paid by Christyfrog but the car was still under warrenty so it is the dealer and Mini's responsibility.
Ronnie948
Christifrog said that the gas came from a Shell Station. The manufacturer of the Mini fuel pump knows well enough that gas fluctuates in quality all over the world. Even if Christyfrog put in additives to clean the injecters etc. The fuel pump should not fail. I'm sure the pump manufacturer will cover the pump for the dealer (MINI).
I'm sure there are plenty of Mini Coopers in Mexico and the gas in most of the country of Mexico is really bad. I have been all over Mexico on my Harley and even when the bike ran bad the gas did not destroy the engine or carborator.
Shell gas is a very good brand and if that gas was screwing up more cars then one little Mini I would think differently. It only seemed to affect one car.
The dealer should have just fixed the car and not made a big deal out of a bad pump.
I only use Mini oil so if I got a bad batch I would still expect Mini to repair my car.
If I had a bulge or a defect in a tire the manufacturer would replace it. If I ran over a nail or something it would not be covered under warrenty.
Some things will just wear out but a FUEL PUMP? No way with less then 50,000 miles should a fuel pump stop working.
If the car was out of warrenty it would have to be paid by Christyfrog but the car was still under warrenty so it is the dealer and Mini's responsibility.
Ronnie948
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: Rhode island
Here is a thought. Citgo, though not a top tier gas, does not have any ethanol in it. Maybe it is a good idea to alternate between a top tier and Citgo, so you can dilute the amount of ethanol in your fuel tank when you think necessary.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
So, if his local Citgo station does use ethanol, it should at least be noted by a sticker on the pumps.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
From: Northwest
Here's another data point. My 2007 r56 had some stumbling and on check, it had fault codes for knock on all 4 cylinders and 12% ethanol in the tank. I only use Shell or Chevron. Just cleared the codes and will see what happens. The local Mini tech said that they'd had problems with Shell in the region.
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: sacramento
chiming in late
I have a 2007 MCS that is still just barely under the 50,000 mile warranty and it suddenly started having the problem where it can't start when the engine is cold a couple of months ago. I took it to the service dept. at the dealership and they told me it was bad gas. Told me to put premium in it from Shell/Chevron and change the spark plugs. Did that, the spark plugs looked fine but changed them anyway with no improvement. I did some looking around on these forums and saw others who had that problem and said it was the fuel pump. So I took it back to the dealer and suggested they check that. Indeed, that is the problem. BUT... they are insisting that "bad gas" caused the pump to be faulty. They tested the gas that's in the tank now and it has 15% ethanol, which is "beyond the tolerance of the vehicle". Because of this, they said the replacement of the fuel pump cannot be covered by the warranty. They are basing this off of the gas that is in there now even though the car has had this problem for at least 2 months and I have used different brands of gas. They said my other option is to contact the fuel company that I last filled up at (Shell) and Shell might reimburse me for the cost of replacing the fuel pump. This all seems like total bull hockey to me.
I am going to get them to show me where in the warranty it specifies ethanol content or gas quality and show me what kind of damage an extra 5% of ethanol can do to a fuel pump. Other than that I don't know what to do.
Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Can they really do this? Should I try taking it to another Mini dealer and see if they'll do it right? I really need some help/suggestions here, I will be talking to them again on Monday.
The dealership in question is Moritz in Arlington, TX. The other dealership I could take it to is Mini of Dallas.
Thank you!
I am going to get them to show me where in the warranty it specifies ethanol content or gas quality and show me what kind of damage an extra 5% of ethanol can do to a fuel pump. Other than that I don't know what to do.
Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Can they really do this? Should I try taking it to another Mini dealer and see if they'll do it right? I really need some help/suggestions here, I will be talking to them again on Monday.
The dealership in question is Moritz in Arlington, TX. The other dealership I could take it to is Mini of Dallas.
Thank you!
Don't take the too much ethanol line.
Ultimately they replaced it after 3 more visits. I only used Chevron or shell 91.
Last edited by sbutler20; May 2, 2009 at 10:27 PM. Reason: new info
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
From: Littleton, CO
So the moral of the story is to drive around to all the gas stations in your local area and find the one that says it contains 10% ethanol or less...
And if your fuel pump goes out under warranty and the dealership tries to pawn it off on you, you scissor-kick them Chuck Norris style and tell them to finish the repair in 20 minutes or less...
And if your fuel pump goes out under warranty and the dealership tries to pawn it off on you, you scissor-kick them Chuck Norris style and tell them to finish the repair in 20 minutes or less...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,821
Likes: 6
From: Mililani,Hawaii
they already told him which stations to use in the first post.
quite wrong there. the warranty specifically states abuse will void the warranty.
throw your auto trans into reverse at 60mph and try to get warranty work
gas with 50% more ethanol than MINI says is ok is going something not allowed and could easily be declined warranty work as long as the dealer proved the gas was bad. I'd put the station on the hook.
throw your auto trans into reverse at 60mph and try to get warranty work
gas with 50% more ethanol than MINI says is ok is going something not allowed and could easily be declined warranty work as long as the dealer proved the gas was bad. I'd put the station on the hook.
i just had my HPFP replaced under warranty. had a rough idle at start, stalled once, threw a check engine light once (misfire on all 4 cyl).
Only used "top tier" 91+ gasoline. They didn't even ask about the gas, they just replaced the fuel pump. The car starts "cleaner" in the am now. I'm happy.
my receipt says that the pump wasn't at full pressure at start-up, and had a leak as well.
Only used "top tier" 91+ gasoline. They didn't even ask about the gas, they just replaced the fuel pump. The car starts "cleaner" in the am now. I'm happy.
my receipt says that the pump wasn't at full pressure at start-up, and had a leak as well.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,602
Likes: 107
From: Arizona
Had my 07 HPFP replaced in Dec. when car stalled on startup a couple times (then ran normally), finally wouldn't start at all. Threw error code of course that last time. They never asked about fuel once.
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
How about we don't patronize a Facist run gas company?? Please!
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
never worked for a oil.
Citgo is owned and operated by the Venezuelan govt. http://citgoboycott.org/
Citgo is owned and operated by the Venezuelan govt. http://citgoboycott.org/
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
The main problem with a high content of ethanol in gasoline is that it allows the gasoline to absorb water. Normally gasoline and water will separate in a fuel tank, but when mixed with alcohol water gets absorbed and if the amount of water this mixture can handle goes over the tolerance level it separates out into 2 phases and the alcohol-rich aqueous phase is really corrosive to metal. That's why they say you can't use an ethanol content higher than 10%. Yes, other parts of the world (Brazil for example) use higher contents of ethanol, but I would be willing to bet Mini installs different parts in cars that will be sold in those markets.
Mini has no control over what goes into your gas tank. You should check with the local station, or local consumer advocate agencies to see if other people have complained about bad fuel from that gas station. As others have said anything over 10% ethanol is illegal, so the authorities would want to know about it.
Mini has no control over what goes into your gas tank. You should check with the local station, or local consumer advocate agencies to see if other people have complained about bad fuel from that gas station. As others have said anything over 10% ethanol is illegal, so the authorities would want to know about it.
Mini Has a Known Problem with their early 07/08 HP Fuel Pumps
I have a 07 MCS that had approx 18K on it when my High Pressure Fuel Pump started acting up on the first start up of the day, didn't matter if it was cold or hot. I run different types of gas Citgo, Shell, BP, Chevron, to the cheapest I can find when I'm traveling back and forth to DC. Mine got bad enough I had to take it to have it looked at, the tech's can run a test on the Fuel Pump to see if it is preforming within spec's. My Service Writer explained that there is a known problem with 07 and some early 08 HP Fuel Pump, but Mini had taken it for action and mod'ed the pump to fix the problem. Mini replaced the Pump with an upgraded pump and Fuel Rail as a precaution under warranty on my first visit. The real moral here is to really take the time to get to know your Mini Service Writer and his team of tech's.... it goes a long way when it comes to things like this or discounts when you want to add your mods.
I also had the "too much ethanol" line thrown out. After a couple times revisiting the shop, all of a sudden a replacement under warranty seemed to be the answer. Ours started acting up at 25K. Check the other BMW forums on the <07 335I and you'll notice with the twin scroll turbo's there also seems to be an issue with the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP).
Don't take the too much ethanol line.
Ultimately they replaced it after 3 more visits. I only used Chevron or shell 91.
Don't take the too much ethanol line.
Ultimately they replaced it after 3 more visits. I only used Chevron or shell 91.
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
I have similar issues in TX
I'm in Austin, TX and have a 2006 Mini S with about 45,000 miles on it. A year ago we started having problems with the engine light, DSC light and misfiring. We were told it was because of bad gas even though we have ALWAYS used premium gas and the car has not been of Texas. They cleaned the fuel injectors and sent us on our way. So for the past year we have only been using premium gas from Exxon, Chreron or Shell but two weeks ago the same problems re- occured. Back to the dealer we go, same " bad gas" diagnosis so I dont' know where you can buy "good gas". They suggested using fuel additive. We get the car back from San Antonio, drive it for a week and the lights and misfiring are back. The kicker to this is that the misfiring only occurs at highway speed and will stop when you restart the car. The lights come and go. Seems like there may be a bigger problem than "bad gas". Similar problems have been reported on a Michigan forum.
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
I'm in Austin, TX and have a 2006 Mini S with about 45,000 miles on it. A year ago we started having problems with the engine light, DSC light and misfiring. We were told it was because of bad gas even though we have ALWAYS used premium gas and the car has not been of Texas. They cleaned the fuel injectors and sent us on our way. So for the past year we have only been using premium gas from Exxon, Chreron or Shell but two weeks ago the same problems re- occured. Back to the dealer we go, same " bad gas" diagnosis so I dont' know where you can buy "good gas". They suggested using fuel additive. We get the car back from San Antonio, drive it for a week and the lights and misfiring are back. The kicker to this is that the misfiring only occurs at highway speed and will stop when you restart the car. The lights come and go. Seems like there may be a bigger problem than "bad gas". Similar problems have been reported on a Michigan forum.
1. Try another dealer if possible. May get a different/better opinion.
2. My dealer told me to stay away from Chevron. Said he sees alot of bad gas coming from them... though it could just be the area i'm in. Which could be bad... it's a major distribution hub.
3. Try changing to different gas stations... maybe one of them is not cleaning the tanks and equipment.
4. Look for a station where they have dedicated hoses for each grade of gas instead of 1 for all grades.
5. Stick to one station for a awhile. if the problem goes away... try another... you can keep trying until you find the offending station. Or just stick with the one that works. Keep receipts and a log.
However, I agree that the problem is alot more complex then gas... so see #1 if possible.
good luck!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 1
From: South Florida.
I think you can get an approximate estimation by using a graduated glass cylinder and fill it to the 9cc/90ml mark with your test gasoline. Add 1cc/10ml of water and cap. The water will absorb the alcohol after a period of time and increase in volume. Using simple math you calculate the approximate % mixture.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,821
Likes: 6
From: Mililani,Hawaii
I think you can get an approximate estimation by using a graduated glass cylinder and fill it to the 9cc/90ml mark with your test gasoline. Add 1cc/10ml of water and cap. The water will absorb the alcohol after a period of time and increase in volume. Using simple math you calculate the approximate % mixture.
I mean, if the water absorbs the alcohol, well, the alcohol was already in the glass. Why would the level change?