Next time return the car to it's original condition before taking it in. Laws are written, and words are subject to interpretation. Unfortunately, no matter what laws you point to, the dealer will show pictures of your non standard mod setup. Dealers and manufacturers have responsibilities, but so do you. If your an auto engineer and want to mod your ride - fine, but take responsibility for your actions. Mods can have unexpected results and if your car was under warranty you can kiss that goodbye.

 

If it's one thing I've learned while hotrodding my 2004 Dodge Cummins Diesel it is, "you are your own warranty station."

You alter the stock configuration, you fix it, bucko.

Enjoy.

 

Aw come on! The MAN....big brother.. give me a break. No one is stopping you from modifying your MINI. Modify away! Drive it over a cliff if yo want. But you can't expect someone else to accept responsibility for a problem that could well be your doing. You play, you pay.

As for manufactures being required to preform warranty work unless they can prove a modification is at fault....good luck with that one. I work in the medical field. We have a lot of computers and diagnostic equipment that carry warning labels something to this effect: ANY modification, addition of software, or other tampering will completely void the warranty with NO EXCEPTION.

 

Ditto!

 

This statement is the specific reason MAG-MOSS was floored and passed by the federal Gov't 30+ years ago. This cannot be done under any circumstances, they (BMW/MINI) have to prove what I did caused the failure. Which I know specifically did not, I'm 99.99% sure its a base timing issue which is why I put my money where my mouth is, I offered to pay for the diagnosis and repair in full if my parts are found to have caused the problem. BMW/MINI is to scared to put their money on the table if they are wrong. The electrical based parts I had (notice I say "had", because they are not in even though the car ran like a charm for more than 6 months with the parts properly installed) are not mechanica in any way shape or form and cannot under any circumstances cause any mechincal hiccup or failure in any way. Either way they are going to look like a bunch of nitwits because if I have to pay for the repair I will be getting re-embursed in court (unless the .1% chance comes true and then I'll gladly eat crow and not take them to court).

Shawn

 

You realize the timing is controlled by the ecu don't you? You've modified the electrical system and messed with wires attached to the ecu. a very finicky ECU when it comes to voltages.

I don't see how you can be so sure that didn't cause the problem.

Do you have training with the MINI electrical system?

 

Do you have your attorney wife on detainer? Did she advise you that you can't be compensated for lost time?

 

1) The ECU controls the timing. It's possible that your mod did cause the problem. Pull it, disco the battery to reset the ECU, and see if that fixes it. If so - ta-da! Problem solved.

2) If not, then you're probably in big trouble. The tech has already alerted you to the fact he believes it's timing based, and I'd bet a year's salary that the mods are noted on computer and I'd be almost as sure that it was photographed. There is a huge sticker on the windshield of these cars when they are new that discusses the interworkings of the car's electrical system and that ANY electrical modifications can have serious ramfications including voiding parts of the warranty. That's just how it is with these cars that are so electronically driven - one little mod to the electronics can screw up a LOT of stuff.

3) The MM laws are nice, but have no teeth. There are numerous stories here on NAM (go ahead and search it up...I can think of two off the top of my head in the past year and a half) of people who had relatives as attorneys or were attorneys themselves that gave up the fight. BMW has huge deep pockets and in-house legal. They'll just run you around, literally for years, as we've seen in the sagas told here on the boards, until you give up.

4) Even if the MM laws *were* helpful, I think that you'd lose. They believe it's timing, timing in these cars is largely controlled by the ECU, which you modded.

5) *Some* MINI dealers are indeed cool about mods. Mine happens to be one of them. But they'd also be the first to tell me it's in my court if something I'd modded was an issue. You may just need to find a different dealer that's okay with mods. Ask around your local clubs; someone should know.

Not trying to flame, just being direct. I do think it's odd that they wouldn't even look at it on your dime, but I'm sure with you being within the warranty period they are just doing a little CYA. If they continue to refuse to work with you, I'd remove the modification (if you haven't already) and try a different dealer.

 

You shouldn't have to hack into ECU wires to install a stiffening capacitor for your audio system. The capacitor can be installed to the battery directly and then grounded wherever it needs to be. Always put the capacitor as close to the amplifiers as possible.

Cutting and splicing into the ECU is asking for trouble. Minute voltage changes in most any automobile system can cause problems, especially when your talking about 5 volt sweeps that encompass almost all motor sensors.

The burden of proof is more so on you that your modifications didn't cause the problem.

These cases are a lot easier when it involves an intake, exhaust, or suspension components.

If there is an explicit warning about modifications to the electrical system voiding the warranty your SOL. The moss warranty act was more to help people installing non-performance after market parts rather than what we have available today, so you don't have to pay $100.00 for a thermostat from the dealership when a $16.00 stant will work fine.

Anytime you ask the vehicle to perform or operate anything outside of "factory spec" your treading on thin ice.

 

I did not install a capacitor. Why is it people can't read or worse yet can't comprehend their own language?

Cutting the wires makes no difference as long as the bundle inside the jacket on both ends of the cut remains the same the transmission of signal/power remains the same. 5V makes a big difference in what decision the sensors make and keeping the voltage stable makes sure everything the ECM decides to do was determined correctly not to mention the coils having the juice they need to fire under high rpm load.

Actually it is not since in our legal system the accuser needs to meet the burden of proof. "Innocent until proven guilty"

I've already spoken with MINI customer service and they agree that if the failure cannot be directly tied to the failure it will be covered under warranty.
I've also got dyno plots proving the items installed have no effect on power output since I did the testing with them hooked up and dis-connected.

The thing I find funny is how the nay sayers here don't understand why I did what I did with datalogging. A number of manufacturers have been caught over rating their engines, since I'm a performance guy I wanted to make sure the car I spent my hard earned money was doing what MINI says it was supposed to be doing. Since the cars don't come with a boost gauge and the plenum is plastic it was just easier to connect to the sensors to determine boost. The intake air temp numbers are a function of determining just how effective the stock intercooler is for street use and whether the units has an inefficiency worth correcting by installing a superior aftermarket unit.

Shawn

 

So what is the outcome?

 

try here for more entertaining story-telling

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...=1#post2338470

 

Funny thing, in yr other thread/jeremiad (see above) you mention this is a *leased* vehicle--a major factoid you did not mention in this thread. And FYI I'd rather be leashed to the man than be a dense dumbf**k and attempt major ecu mods on a vehicle I dont even own.

 

In addition to my MCS, I purchased a new Lexus GS350AWD last fall. Let's just suppose that I cut into the main wiring loom of this car to install something. I then had a problem of some sort with the electrical system. I take the car to the Lexus dealer for repair under warranty. What do you think the Lexus dealer is going to tell me? In the Mini world, the dealer is no different nor is the warranty. Yet we read over and over of Mini owners who are upset that warranty work is not done for them when they have modded their brand new car or raced it, etc. If you own it (Car is Paid for) you can do whatever you like. If you are leasing or making payments, (you don't have title) and mod the vehicle, you take the risk of not having warranty coverage or taking a big hit when you turn the car in and the mod is discovered. So, what is the differenct between the Lexus and the Mini dealer?

 

Shawn,

I'm not flaming you at all but I think you misundstand what the M-MA is for.

The act is basically saying that for example, replacing an oil filter with an aftermarket oil filter is permissible and the warranty shall not be voided because of that.

If the warranty shall be voided because a replacement part is not deemed acceptable by the manufacturer, they must offer that part for free.

It's not for "add-ons" or modifications. You can't bolt on a set of headers and expect the M-MA to protect you because headers are not replacement for OEM exhaust manifolds.

It has NOTHING to do with protecting you from your modifications.



"The essence of this law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle makers brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty"

Anotherwards, replacement of OEM parts with aftermarket equivalents.



Back to your original post, having been in the automotive business for 25 years, I think the service you received is terrible however, I'm afraid that your modifications caused any reluctance in getting your car even looked at.

I hope you get it fixed but I honestly can't blame Mini for not covering it if they don't. They spend millions of dollars in research and development to have the right size wires, correct currents, blah, blah, blah. to make their cars run correctly for many miles.

Though you feel your modifications may not have had any effects on your car, obviously something went wrong. I don't ever recall anyone with the stock wiring harness having the same problem you're having.

Good luck with the repairs, hope you get it fixed soon.

Mark

 

I thought that all of the threads on this subject had been locked. I know that the moderators made changes to some posting rules in part because of this thread. Everybody has hashed through the consequences of modding BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I would like to know the final outcome. What was really wrong with the car, etc; however, all of the other stuff has definitely been exhausted. There will never be agreement on who caused what. I just want to know what the problem was. Lets leave all of the other junk out so that this thread does not get locked as well.

 

Well said... I wasn't trying to flame anyone but like you, I would like to know what end up causing his problem.

Mark

 

The ECU in the R56 is a 4 Gigabyte computer that MAY be damaged by static voltages caused by touching any of the input bare wires without using a grounding strap on your wrist, and definitely CAN be damaged by the application of a soldering iron to its wires. Special soldering procedures and equipment are used by the electronic industry to avoid this problem. Im sure that you didnt take any of these precautions.

 

dead on with the modding. thats exactly what my dealer said...if i mod my suspension and i blow a head gasket...the engine is still covered. My engine is modded lightly with easy to remove parts. Hell NO would any moderately smart person solder into the ECU GENIUS...Hey if you win, can I have 100 dollars... Original Poster?
As for the OP..good luck suing BMW, I hear they have many lawyers...most large corporations do.

 

Did you all notice the name of the dealer....HASSEL....WTh....OP you took your car to a shop named HAssel, Its all in the name

 

Let's not start bashing the OP again. It's been done (on multiple threads). The ECU has been discussed. The MMA has been discussed. Many people have called each other idiots. I just want to know what was really wrong with it.