R56 Spontaneous Sunroof Explosion
And would seem to fit the sticking sunroof issue too...
Neutral
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5
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Well I was away for the weekend, so if there's a heel mark on ours somebody's got some explaining to do!!
Temperature was pretty mild (15 Celsius, ~60 F) here and was raining at the time, so I doubt Thermal Expansion played a part.
Temperature was pretty mild (15 Celsius, ~60 F) here and was raining at the time, so I doubt Thermal Expansion played a part.
RATTUS Deserticus
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, AZ; aka Lesser Phoenix, aka BFE
I'm curious about the conditions, if you could indulge me. 
Are you running on RF tires?
Was the road particularly rough?
Were you carving the twisty's or was this a straight road?
What I'm driving at is the body flex of the car at the time of failure. I wonder if the road induced vibration and/or maneuvering may have contributed to the pre-load on the glass.
Are you running on RF tires?
Was the road particularly rough?
Were you carving the twisty's or was this a straight road?
What I'm driving at is the body flex of the car at the time of failure. I wonder if the road induced vibration and/or maneuvering may have contributed to the pre-load on the glass.
I should have checked this thread earlier.
I just graduated from Penn State as an Architectural Engineer and in a building envelope class that I just took, we discussed spontaneous window breaking. In heat tempered glass, NiS particles located within the glass can cause spontaneous explosion of the glass.
Here's an advertisment that talks about it...
http://www.gscglass.in/heat_soked.htm
Honestly, my guess is that it IS a manufacturers defect and that they should replace the glass. Because it's such a rare occurrence, the typical warranty person at a glass manufacturer might not know about this. You'd have to go to the top of the chain within the manufacturer....
I just graduated from Penn State as an Architectural Engineer and in a building envelope class that I just took, we discussed spontaneous window breaking. In heat tempered glass, NiS particles located within the glass can cause spontaneous explosion of the glass.
Here's an advertisment that talks about it...
http://www.gscglass.in/heat_soked.htm
Tempering process increases the strength of glass many folds, offering a greater resistance to breakage. However, the raw-materials used in the manufacturing of tempered glass are not free from certain defects including Nickel Sulfide inclusions, which put tempered glass at potential risk of spontaneous breakage. The amount and size of these inclusions vary from glass to glass. It has been a challenge for the float glass manufacturing to produce a glass free from nickel sulphide (NiS) inclusions. NiS inclusions change their structure and volume during the heating process of tempering. This changed state is 'trapped' during the quenching process. So at room temperature, the NiS inclusions tend to change back to their original state, which having bigger volume, cause spontaneous breakage. This changing back of state could happen in a few minutes to a few years, making it unpredictable when the tempered glass may break.
Honestly, my guess is that it IS a manufacturers defect and that they should replace the glass. Because it's such a rare occurrence, the typical warranty person at a glass manufacturer might not know about this. You'd have to go to the top of the chain within the manufacturer....
and if you have any pictures of the glass, it's pretty easy to determine if the explosion was caused by NiS particles....
When the glass breaks, it'll be clear where the break started from. Look at the very center. There is usually two hexagonal dices of glass touching each other. In between the two hexagonal pieces, there will be a small dot, this is the NiS impurity...
Sometimes the center pieces pop out though, and you can't really tell...
here's another site with info, and a few pics...
http://www.picams.com.au/nickel-sulphide.html
When the glass breaks, it'll be clear where the break started from. Look at the very center. There is usually two hexagonal dices of glass touching each other. In between the two hexagonal pieces, there will be a small dot, this is the NiS impurity...
Sometimes the center pieces pop out though, and you can't really tell...
here's another site with info, and a few pics...
http://www.picams.com.au/nickel-sulphide.html
Neutral
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Thanks DW 
Car is going in tomorrow to replace the panel and will pursue warranty coverage. Difficult to determine breakage pattern without reassembling the window as it collapsed in when the trunk was closed. However, looked nearly identical to the pic posted by Chilli.
In our case car was parked when it occured, so driving conditions/tires irrelevant.
There was no sign of any projectile, or other object that would have caused the breakage. Nor any damage to the roof or the rest of the car.
Car is going in tomorrow to replace the panel and will pursue warranty coverage. Difficult to determine breakage pattern without reassembling the window as it collapsed in when the trunk was closed. However, looked nearly identical to the pic posted by Chilli.
In our case car was parked when it occured, so driving conditions/tires irrelevant.
There was no sign of any projectile, or other object that would have caused the breakage. Nor any damage to the roof or the rest of the car.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
The key with car problems and working with the dealership is to have to dealership put in writing that they are not going to cover the problem/defect and have signatures so the person who is actually responsible knows what they are signing and dealing with.
If you don't get any movement with the dealership, ask to speak with their regional rep. Your dealership manager is only one level. Hand the rep the paperwork you have gotten from the dealership..make sure you look over your warranty as well with them
I had to play hardball with my mazda and a paint problem...took three months, but they did repaint the rear of the vehicle and I had a loaner for a week, no charge. It is the regional rep's duty to make sure nothing bad AT ALL goes against their record. One little dealership in whatever town can be moved out to another town and a whole new start for them.
The key words are, my insurance company is ready to persue reimbursement for damages based on a manufacturer defect. And since you have faxed the dealership's statement to your insurance company and the BBB it's not a problem for you to continue seeking damage reimbursement is it?
I find it hard for a rock to magically hit the precise spot on the roof where the nice and strong glass is going to break and shatter....upwards, where as a rock would probable knock the glass into the vehicle. Not saying the glass won't come in after the explostion.
If you're going to play with the big dogs and the dog who their only job is to make money off you and give you away, then you might have to get a little dirty and sling mud back at them. Become a pest in one sense, but be fair...looking at the prices and the little work needed to replace the glass...go get them.
If you don't get any movement with the dealership, ask to speak with their regional rep. Your dealership manager is only one level. Hand the rep the paperwork you have gotten from the dealership..make sure you look over your warranty as well with them
I had to play hardball with my mazda and a paint problem...took three months, but they did repaint the rear of the vehicle and I had a loaner for a week, no charge. It is the regional rep's duty to make sure nothing bad AT ALL goes against their record. One little dealership in whatever town can be moved out to another town and a whole new start for them.
The key words are, my insurance company is ready to persue reimbursement for damages based on a manufacturer defect. And since you have faxed the dealership's statement to your insurance company and the BBB it's not a problem for you to continue seeking damage reimbursement is it?
I find it hard for a rock to magically hit the precise spot on the roof where the nice and strong glass is going to break and shatter....upwards, where as a rock would probable knock the glass into the vehicle. Not saying the glass won't come in after the explostion.
If you're going to play with the big dogs and the dog who their only job is to make money off you and give you away, then you might have to get a little dirty and sling mud back at them. Become a pest in one sense, but be fair...looking at the prices and the little work needed to replace the glass...go get them.
wow! I'm more then thrilled that the info helped out. I'm really excited actually. I hope Mini will realize the issue and fix it for future windows (hopefully before mine gets installed...)
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Glendale, CA
I haven't checked this thread in a while. I think I'll give the service manager a little call annd send him this info.
It has been months but maybe they'll see the light!
It has been months but maybe they'll see the light!
I should have checked this thread earlier.
I just graduated from Penn State as an Architectural Engineer and in a building envelope class that I just took, we discussed spontaneous window breaking. In heat tempered glass, NiS particles located within the glass can cause spontaneous explosion of the glass.
Here's an advertisment that talks about it...
http://www.gscglass.in/heat_soked.htm
Honestly, my guess is that it IS a manufacturers defect and that they should replace the glass. Because it's such a rare occurrence, the typical warranty person at a glass manufacturer might not know about this. You'd have to go to the top of the chain within the manufacturer....
I just graduated from Penn State as an Architectural Engineer and in a building envelope class that I just took, we discussed spontaneous window breaking. In heat tempered glass, NiS particles located within the glass can cause spontaneous explosion of the glass.
Here's an advertisment that talks about it...
http://www.gscglass.in/heat_soked.htm
Honestly, my guess is that it IS a manufacturers defect and that they should replace the glass. Because it's such a rare occurrence, the typical warranty person at a glass manufacturer might not know about this. You'd have to go to the top of the chain within the manufacturer....
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Glendale, CA
That's great, congratulations!!
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Glendale, CA
What Dealer did you go to?
heard of it? Sounds more like they chose to let the ball drop.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 9
From: Houston
Is there any figures on this occurance. I just orderd one with sunroof so I am wondering if it's common. In my teens we had a family car, a Ford where the glass hatchback window exploded during a drive. I think we concluded it must have been heat stress on the glass. We replaced it was okay after that.
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Sunroof Explosions
I have a 2007 Cooper that just did the same thing with the forward sunroof. It was around 40 degrees last night when I left work. I put a guitar in the back and the roof shattered when I closed the hatch. The problem now is I live in Burlington VT with the nearest dealer in Albany. Any body know of any aftermarket glass or other patches I could use? And the dealer will not cover it under warranty
.
.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, VA
Leftzilla,
What's the dealer's explanation for refusing warranty coverage? Are the sunroofs supposed to break when you close the back hatch? (Maybe this should be in the "Things you didn't know about your MINI" thread?)
What's the dealer's explanation for refusing warranty coverage? Are the sunroofs supposed to break when you close the back hatch? (Maybe this should be in the "Things you didn't know about your MINI" thread?)
Last edited by corcoranwtnet; Dec 4, 2008 at 05:58 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 5
From: Florida, South Gulf Coast
There was a thread here on the subject, last seen about six months ago.
The owner of the 'exploded' sunroof researched and found that the cause of the spontaneous shatter was due to microscopic defects in the glass.
His documentation convinced MINI to Warranty the replacement for him.
Search for the thread, as the documentation was included.
__________________________________________________ _______
Edit:- Skip the search, as it is above in THIS Thread, see:
The owner of the 'exploded' sunroof researched and found that the cause of the spontaneous shatter was due to microscopic defects in the glass.
His documentation convinced MINI to Warranty the replacement for him.
Search for the thread, as the documentation was included.
__________________________________________________ _______
Edit:- Skip the search, as it is above in THIS Thread, see:
I should have checked this thread earlier.
I just graduated from Penn State as an Architectural Engineer and in a building envelope class that I just took, we discussed spontaneous window breaking. In heat tempered glass, NiS particles located within the glass can cause spontaneous explosion of the glass.
Here's an advertisment that talks about it...
http://www.gscglass.in/heat_soked.htm
Honestly, my guess is that it IS a manufacturers defect and that they should replace the glass. Because it's such a rare occurrence, the typical warranty person at a glass manufacturer might not know about this. You'd have to go to the top of the chain within the manufacturer....
I just graduated from Penn State as an Architectural Engineer and in a building envelope class that I just took, we discussed spontaneous window breaking. In heat tempered glass, NiS particles located within the glass can cause spontaneous explosion of the glass.
Here's an advertisment that talks about it...
http://www.gscglass.in/heat_soked.htm
Quote:
Tempering process increases the strength of glass many folds, offering a greater resistance to breakage. However, the raw-materials used in the manufacturing of tempered glass are not free from certain defects including Nickel Sulfide inclusions, which put tempered glass at potential risk of spontaneous breakage. The amount and size of these inclusions vary from glass to glass. It has been a challenge for the float glass manufacturing to produce a glass free from nickel sulphide (NiS) inclusions. NiS inclusions change their structure and volume during the heating process of tempering. This changed state is 'trapped' during the quenching process. So at room temperature, the NiS inclusions tend to change back to their original state, which having bigger volume, cause spontaneous breakage. This changing back of state could happen in a few minutes to a few years, making it unpredictable when the tempered glass may break.
Tempering process increases the strength of glass many folds, offering a greater resistance to breakage. However, the raw-materials used in the manufacturing of tempered glass are not free from certain defects including Nickel Sulfide inclusions, which put tempered glass at potential risk of spontaneous breakage. The amount and size of these inclusions vary from glass to glass. It has been a challenge for the float glass manufacturing to produce a glass free from nickel sulphide (NiS) inclusions. NiS inclusions change their structure and volume during the heating process of tempering. This changed state is 'trapped' during the quenching process. So at room temperature, the NiS inclusions tend to change back to their original state, which having bigger volume, cause spontaneous breakage. This changing back of state could happen in a few minutes to a few years, making it unpredictable when the tempered glass may break.
Honestly, my guess is that it IS a manufacturers defect and that they should replace the glass. Because it's such a rare occurrence, the typical warranty person at a glass manufacturer might not know about this. You'd have to go to the top of the chain within the manufacturer....
and if you have any pictures of the glass, it's pretty easy to determine if the explosion was caused by NiS particles....
When the glass breaks, it'll be clear where the break started from. Look at the very center. There is usually two hexagonal dices of glass touching each other. In between the two hexagonal pieces, there will be a small dot, this is the NiS impurity...
Sometimes the center pieces pop out though, and you can't really tell...
here's another site with info, and a few pics...
http://www.picams.com.au/nickel-sulphide.html
When the glass breaks, it'll be clear where the break started from. Look at the very center. There is usually two hexagonal dices of glass touching each other. In between the two hexagonal pieces, there will be a small dot, this is the NiS impurity...
Sometimes the center pieces pop out though, and you can't really tell...
here's another site with info, and a few pics...
http://www.picams.com.au/nickel-sulphide.html
Last edited by pilotart; Dec 3, 2008 at 03:00 PM.
I can't imagine that they won't warranty it. You're probably going to have to tarp the thing for the time being, but given that this is a known problem, with multiple occurrences, MINI has a responsibility to take care of you, even if you're out of warranty. There are safety issues involved that I seriously doubt they want you to raise...say with the consumer protection division of the NY or VT AG.
Mark me down as another victim of the exploding sunroof.
On my way back from Phoenix to Los Angeles yesterday, I was driving on a smooth 2 lane highway, and my sunroof shattered, but the glass held in place (thank god). It was 82 degrees out, sunroof closed, AC on. I knew it wasn't a rock or any other fallen object because there was no impact point on the sunroof. The break was actually in a perfect rectangle shape the size of the front sunroof.
when I pulled over:
the view from inside:
my temporary fix for the remaining 4 hour drive to my local dealership:
when i got there:
I'm waiting for them to get back to me with a diagnosis later today, but in the meantime they've waived the diagnostic fee and given me a loaner. The techs all said they've never seen this issue, but I will refer to this, and other similar threads on NAM to prove that this is not exactly an isolated issue.
On my way back from Phoenix to Los Angeles yesterday, I was driving on a smooth 2 lane highway, and my sunroof shattered, but the glass held in place (thank god). It was 82 degrees out, sunroof closed, AC on. I knew it wasn't a rock or any other fallen object because there was no impact point on the sunroof. The break was actually in a perfect rectangle shape the size of the front sunroof.
when I pulled over:
the view from inside:
my temporary fix for the remaining 4 hour drive to my local dealership:
when i got there:
I'm waiting for them to get back to me with a diagnosis later today, but in the meantime they've waived the diagnostic fee and given me a loaner. The techs all said they've never seen this issue, but I will refer to this, and other similar threads on NAM to prove that this is not exactly an isolated issue.
Last edited by tsientong; Mar 24, 2010 at 02:08 AM.
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
apparently this isnt that rare, no tint shop in my area, new orleans, would tint my r56 sunroof, due to the fact that the sunroof could explode, finally i called the dealer and asked them and they directed me to the shop they use, he did it, but said the dealer gets them tinted all the time. i figure, if its gunna blow , the tint will keep it intact and not fall all over my car
the reason i kept getting for the explosion was that the sunroof glass in not tempered like the windshield, and with all that direct heat if you tint it the heat is sent back double heating the glass and poof you have a stress break. i dont know if thats true but....
the reason i kept getting for the explosion was that the sunroof glass in not tempered like the windshield, and with all that direct heat if you tint it the heat is sent back double heating the glass and poof you have a stress break. i dont know if thats true but....