Ok - I'm gonna meddle a little bit - especially after my tango with the forum/administrators/moderators over forum rules/regulations and what was certainly more personal reaction versus professional decision making (as another NAM member/moderator put it - choosing to use a broad sword rather than a ....)

I don't know Randy Webb, I haven't bought his products, haven't met him in person etc - but know he's been on this forum since 2002, has something like 3000 posts, including how to's for many product installations and seems to be a favorite of many other NAM members when it comes to information, service and reputation.

Seriously, is this forum turning into someone's personal playground - when he or she decides that their little internet feelings and dork pocket protectors and lame comb-over hair has been offended or that their mom won't be their girlfriend anymore, they start lashing out at people. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here (heck - I feel like it's okay) - and if I'm wrong, heck I'll even apologize. But, really, unless this guy blew up your dog, screwed your underage daughter, sent you a ricin laced lemon pie - I don't see what he would have done (calling another member a name, expressing his opinion about another vendor or product, etc doesn't count - this is the internet, it's america and this is a free site people - free site!!!!) to be temporarily banned!!!!!! If the people who are running this forum are gonna selectively Hitlerize NAM so we all look and talk alike then really, for those of us who actually enjoy what we get from this forum - take your project into the exclusive sector and create a fee for membership site that let's you all have your little sect - so that we can continue to have a place to express ideas, opinions and information.

As a free site, there should be some democracy about this kind of stuff. Apparently this really perturbs me (obviously in the context of my little event a few weeks back - which I had really let go until I randomly stumbled across this). And yeah - who am I - just another NAM person with a 3rd year designation - but again - this site is free - we have moderators and administrators to oversee things - but it really seems to me that if people are gonna be banned from this site (people who have a lot of information to share and a lot of experience and commentary to express) then that needs to be a decision made by the majority of us who utilize this site.

An early goodbye to all who have helped me (yeah, I mildly anticipate that I'll end up banned after this diatribe - but that should be an eye opener to a lot of others on here if that happens).

 

At the very least, an explanation of why someone was banned is in order.

 

Exactly - when someone so well known to a forum - with 6-7 years of regular involvement is "banned" - and it's not a majority decision - then the majority at a minimum needs to be informed (either via PM or through a thread that everyone is made aware exists). At least then, we have the opportunity to decide how to react and what/where to go from there.

 

Is he temporarily or permanently banned?

 

when his name appears in a thread (which is how I discovered it) it says temporarily banned in the area where it would usually say 1st gear or administrator, etc)

 

Here is the deal.

I gotta say the way is being dealt with is not right. IB_Advertising did the ban late Friday afternoon. The funny part of all this is this, one is listed as a permanent ban while 3 other advertisers received temp ban ranging from 24 hours to a week. The reason is for X months they have not paid their bills. I don't know the details of how far past due on any of these are.

IB_Adrian did post in admin forum that one vendor, not Webb and I won't name who, has been banned for nonpayment but didn't list all the others. I only stumbled over this when looking at why RandyBMC is banned. On Monday I intend on calling IB to discuss the timing, manner and method.

There are many options here and I'll discuss them with IB. Randy if you see this before I have something worked out with IB contact me via gnatster at gmail

 

99% of the bans we do are Spam related. 99% of the last 1% are banned users coming back with another username. For the most part if the new username doesn't do the same thing that caused the ban in first place we leave it alone, but often given the rope we give them they hang themselves. Bans are usually few and far between for site guideline issues.

 

Gnatster - thanks for keep us posted and looking into this.

 

Thanks Gnatster for the explanation.

 

When I visit most other MINI forums I’m struck by the homogeneity of participants and how they communicate. NAM offers the greatest diversity and deepest resources over any other forum.

 

+1

 

im sure the mods would not have banned someone unless they have been warned.. then violated again.

i am a mod on several boards..
there is always... always.. someone who thinks you are an ********* for doing your job.. hey with the big paycheck you get.. the mods should be thanked and very appreciated..

we thank you ..

 

wow.. this forum edits bad language.. i didn't even spell i right and it knew i was saying Arshawl LOL

 

Exactly. Fortunately, most of the folks who violate get the idea pretty quick with warnings and/or minor infractions. Some people seem to think there's a sense of entitlement to being here. There isn't. Just because a forum is free does not mean that being a member isn't a privilege (instead of a right). That goes for every single member, including mods and admins like myself.

99.5% of members understand this, and are willing to follow the intent of the Site Guidelines (which isn't really difficult to do if you are a reasonable person), but there's always that 0.5% who somehow insist on rocking the boat because they think they're entitled to act as they want.

This site is owned and managed. It is not a truly public forum (like standing on a box in the middle of a town square) where there is a legal guarantee of "freedom of speech" without any restrictions. It's not a democracy, where members get to "vote" on things like bans.

Everyone is welcome here until they make themselves unwelcome.

As you'll notice, mach schnell has not been banned for his post. This thread hasn't been locked or deleted either, although it "technically" breaks the site guidelines anyway (see #10). That's because there is room for some interpretation by the management.

(BTW, moving this thread to Site Feedback)

 

I use free and public perhaps too loosely interchangeably - however that's what I mean when I write the word "free". As a public site, it does seem fair - to the public users of this site - that a ban that affects such a common name/vendor on this forum have an explanation that is shared publicly or via PM to all the members. It's one thing to refer to site guidelines or rules, etc - but it's just as easy and in most case, more effective to proactively engage the situation (why do you think politicians employ so many people in public relations?) Proactive damage control goes so much further than reactive damage control. Proactive management also limits speculation - which in this case there's bound to be speculation - I'll be honest - had it not been for my recent little scuffle over threads/forum rules etc, I probably would have just looked at the ban as a, "hmmmm - maybe I'll just post a question asking what happened..." However, given my recent experience - I'm gonna succumb to speculation and probe (or instigate - depending on how you want to interpret it). It's likely this temporary ban has nothing to do with anything other than vendor dues or whatever - but imagine how much less speculation there'd be if we all knew that in advance.

Keep in mind, I'm writing all of this with absolutely no affiliation to Randy Webb what-so-ever. I don't own any of his products, he's never touched my car, I would know the dude if he walked up to me and said hello - but I do know he's a respected regular around here and as part of the general maintstream who floats about these pages - I get a little suspicious when I see someone like that suddenly banned.

So, to the admin - how about you impress upon us some bit of PR to explain what happened to Randy Webb - before it becomes a Lifetime made for TV movie (cuz we all know those are never really good - although it would give Alan Thicke and Melissa Joan Hart another paycheck....)

 

Gnatster has already explained it. Randy Webb was banned by IB without any consultation from any of the mods or admins, including me.

I agree that it was abrupt, and could have been handled better, and had I been involved in any way in the action, I would have fought for that.

Right now we are making the case that if he is no longer a paying vendor, but he is not trying to sell anything, that he should instead have been converted back to a regular member account. He's an individual, not merely a "business entity", and I personally don't see why he can't continue to be a valuable community member... but we can only make a case, not the decision on this.

Please try to remember that not everything that happens on NAM is the direct result of management. The ownership (Internet Brands) is separate from the day-to-day management now, and we're still trying to work with them to improve communication with us, for the betterment of the NAM community.

I didn't even know Randy was banned until you posted about it. This is nobody's personal playground.

 

Wow thats messed up Randy Webb....Banned!

I gotta a warning last year for (accidently BTW) using all caps on one, yes 1 post

 

I completely agree! I wasn't aware of what this IB (Internet Brand) entity was - still, someone representing them should issue a forum statement explaining when this type of thing occurs - irrespective if the member/vendor is banned completely or just from selling products and allowed to continue as an active community member/poster (if he or she elected to remain).

I appreciate the moderators and admins input and participation though in this thread. I can see where this is difficult - it's like being the middle manager and the execs decide to axe your employee without giving you the heads up.

 

If "failure to pay advertising bills" is the reason for the banning, then WHY ARE THE "Webb Motorsports" ads still up? As of this moment, if you go to the "Vendor Directory", you will find WM in the list. I could understand an advertiser's ads being removed if he/she is not paying for them, but the last time I looked I wasn't being billed for posting to these forums as a regular person. Seems to me that the "authorities" have their "disciplinary measures" backwards!!

 

I'm the first one to admit this was done poorly. As stated above late Friday afternoon IB pulled 4 accounts for the above reason. One we were warned about in the admin forums, not Webb, and was told this person was banned. When I went to look at the banned list it was a 24 hour ban. Two others that we were not informed about in the admin forums, have 7 days bans. Lastly Webb, who again we were not informed about in the admin forums, received a permanent ban. None of them had their ads pulled from rotation or the vendor directory, which thanks to the tools Mark created is a very easy thing to do. Open Vendor Directory in the admin CP and there they all are in alpha order. Check the "inactive" box and save. Then change user permissions to Moderated Posting and let the admin staff know whats going on. There is no reason to ban these people. If they don't want to continue advertising on NAM that's fine, Change the User Name to something that is not their company name and they can still post if they desire, just not push their wares.

It's the weekend folks, the powers that be at IB ain't there. The fact they pulled this late on a Friday and didn't really let us in the line of fire know is annoying as hell and believe me I've already sent off the email telling them again how foolish their management of this matter was handled. I'd much rather be doing other stuff than dealing with this.

 

gnatster - I did not intend to indicate that I doubted the reason you stated for the RW's "banishment." I can see from reading my earlier post again, how you might have thought so; and I apologize if that was what you interpreted.

I meant to indicate that not only was IB hasty and inappropriate in their action, but that it was even more foolish than I thought at first. After all, most suppliers cut off what one is paying for if one does not pay for it. Their actions appear to be somewhat irrational.

Further, I would hope YOU are not feeling defensive over this. You are NOT responsible for the action or its poor execution.

 

markldriskill - I wanted to make it perfectly clear just how in the dark we as site admins were about this and just how poorly IB handled this. Each time I think we take one step forward in getting on track actions we have no control over take us two steps back. I am only defensive as we admins should know whats going even for the simple fact that we are not blindsided. Vendors are going to come and go, thats the nature of the beast, but not even tell those on the front lines, that is inexcusable.

mach schnell - as you can see you are not going to banned for your diatribe, but if you could please turn down the rhetoric to maybe a 9 instead of an 11 it would still get the point across without creating more unneeded reported posts.

 

definitely - that's why i put the following statement in my previous post above, "I appreciate the moderators and admins input and participation though in this thread. I can see where this is difficult - it's like being the middle manager and the execs decide to axe your employee without giving you the heads up.
__________________

 

Last summer....at Banned camp.....

 

I support the mods... Probably because I am one on another forum.

That being said, there are times (even now) when it is none of anyones business why he was banned. Maybe he asked for the ban himself (laugh, but I have been asked for temp bans before) or didn't pay his dues. Either way, that is business between IB and Randy and not the average user. Why should NAM have to explain every move they make to the us? If they did there would be more arguing on this forum than there already is because not everyone will agree with a decision made by the mods.

The job is thankless and I guarantee that on a lot of the decisions made they hate to do it. I know... I do...