thanks for the updated rules minihune

 

I wonder - I'm sure OEM bushings are allowed to be replaced/refreshed, wonder if certain aftermarket bushings are allowed

 

"C. Suspension bushings, including but not limited to those which carry the weight of the vehicle and determine ride height, may not be replaced
with bushings of a different material or dimension."


Cheers,


Charlie

 

Gotcha, thanks

 

Does anyone wanna translate what these new rules mean to the "stock" (street) class for the future?

http://www.solomatters.com/2013/03/s...sal-explained/

i.e., does "Shocks are limited to two adjustments without remote reservoirs, effective 2015. " rule out Konis or other shocks? etc.

 

I made a few observations here: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...k-classes.html

Its just remote reservoirs which got banned, two adjustments were already allowed. Koni's don't look like they've got remote reservoirs.

 

Sorry I missed that.

 

Street is a new name for stock. The Street class is a proposal open for member comment.
R-comps have become very expensive and with camber challenged cars like the MINI (R56 for sure) the A6 tires cord on the outside edges easily. So many people want to run on 140 (first year) - 200 TW tires that don't cost as much. Adding camber plates will make tires last longer and improve handling. Shocks are more limited with the new proposal but I still think you can spend just as much. Sway bars will offset shocks and attempt to overcome the OEM stock springs for improved handling. Wheels are opened up a bit on size. Running in street will remove the need of changing tires at events.

 

If you want to win anything non-local, I wouldn't count on that. The BFG Rival seems to be pushing the "street tire" boundaries already, and we don't know how it or the Z2 reacts to shaving yet.

Not understanding the remote reservoir ban, but still allowing double adjustables. Sure, you can go nuts ($2000/corner) with the Motons, but even converted Konis are still $700/corner and won't last close to 50k street miles.

Wheel size allowance is there for anyone on 14"s or 20"s that can't find competitive tires. The possibility of extra width on the 15s makes those slightly more attractive, although, for us, finding 15x6.5s might not be easy (haven't looked yet).

Camber rocks! This was long overdue.

Being able to do both sways has potential to make non-streetable cars in a hurry. I could see this being altered a bit.

Unless Justas get reclassed, I'm not sure this shakes up HS much. We're still lighter than everything else and it addresses our biggest weakness with the camber plate allowance.

Might make DS interesting, although I think most of those cars are also camber challenged. Maybe if somebody can drop a wheel size and gain an advantage?

Overall, I'm pretty meh to this, but also not terribly effective. I'll miss my purple crack, but the Rival seems like a great tire.

 

Shall we move this particular discussion to the aforementioned thread (https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...classes.html)? I noticed something else interesting which I will note in that thread

 

Trailer queens will always appear in any class. I have been changing wheels for over 15 years in both Stock and SP (at the same events) and am not afraid of continuing. For Street Class you can drive to the National tour with your local tires and run your new tires at the event. We have 15 sets of wheels for our cars (including Hoosier Wets, 4 sets of A6s, RE-11s, 3 sets of Star Specs, Z2s, 3 sets of R-S3s, and even Kumho 710s) so trust me I get it.

We have Z2s and I have driven on the BFG Rival in a FRS. The Rival is like the old BFG R1 in that the sidewall inverts when over driven. The grip is great and camber will help even more with the BFG. The Z2s are very nice, softer than Z1s (I think but my Z1s are 6 months old now). Overall the Z2 is a good intermediate and looks like it will work better in the rain than the Rival.

I think the street class plates, shocks (I think shocks will be expensive), bars and possibly the wheels will appeal to drivers that like to tinker and have a used car (or a 3 year old car). I don't see someone who has never auto-xed showing up with a new car with bars, plates and shocks installed. I can see Auto-xers getting new cars (20K-50K+) and then spending $5,000 (or much more) to set up the car just for solo in street class. The advantage is that dedicated auto-xers will have a car that works better, not need to change wheels at the track, not cord as quickly, have the chance to tinker with setup, and have more fun racing the car they have. The disadvantage is that people outside of SCCA will not have a car that is configured or not configured properly for street class and they will have no place to run without investing in Solo (I am not sure anything changed).

 

offhand of what's currently being discussed, jcw suspension is not legal for a base cooper correct?

 

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as condescending. I agree with you on driving to Nationals on your locals and changing to your good tires when you get there. Definitely doable and probably competitive.

The Rival worries me is all. Its supposed to be a fair bit faster than everything else out there at the moment, and doesn't seem to be trying too hard to be a daily driven street tire. We're at the end of that road already with the A6, why take 1 step back and blow up everybody's setups in the process? I know people are saying that they wear well, but when the new, faster, version (and the version after that) comes out in a year or 2, will that still be true?

Kyoo: JCW suspension is legal and common on stock class justas. Make sure you get the correct bars (both front and rear are different from the sport suspension) in addition to the springs.

 

Thanks for the info - I guess technically then I would only need the springs and the front bar if I were going to run konis and a bigger rsb correct? I wonder if the JCW springs are a big improvement over the sport springs

Over in evo-land as far as I can tell the ZII's are supposedly faster than the rivals.. forget exactly where I read that though

 

I was not offended or put off in any way and I know that when I am typing messages it is difficult to show how much I care about the folks on the boards.

A6s are VERY expensive. In the old days Hoosiers were like $100-$150 for the smaller sizes and now they are $230-$300 and up for the same car (sizes have changed and the cost has gone up even more). A6s die if you don't use them and if you don't have camber the outside edges cord quickly. SCCA wants more participation and getting Stock class on street tires appears to be the way to increase the size of the Stock classes (now Street). Street tires can be driven on the road and drivers can use them every day after they go bad for Auto-x unlike A6s that can't driven on the street at all (If you are sane).

Street tires slip more than Rs and drivers tend to sharpen skill with some slip. The latest street tires have OK grip as long as you have camber to prevent pushing. In racing you have to have fresh tires for big events so you are going to have to spend money at some point if you want to play with the top dogs. Street tires will cost much less and last longer and drivers can put more miles on them. I agree that the Rivals will be more like the Toyo R1R in that you will not want to drive on them every day. You can still drive on them. I know many folks that drove to events on 710s back when they were the tire to have.

In 4 sets of 4 runs, with 2 tire swaps between the Rivals and Z2s, Rivals still showing to be the fastest. The Z2 is not that much slower (about .6 on a 64 sec lap) in our A/B tests. I know Andy H is making a point that the BFGs are great but I don't think BFGs are that much faster than the Z2 and driving style can still make more of a difference. I still don't know about temp differences. The R-S3s love heat and the Z2s appear to do OK in the cooler conditions. We still run R-S3s daily on the MINI. All runs so far on the Rivals have been at 75-80 F and dry conditions.

Hope that helps take some of the fear out of the proposed changes. Most of the time I don't like what the SEB comes up with but this time they are thinking about increasing fun and keeping members happy. Sure it will mess up what you know but at least the goal in this case is not to prevent a class darling (like the HS mini) from racing after the drivers have invested years in the car.