I just received my confirmation email:

 

I have just learned that the SCCA sperates Miatas by year. Does anybody have more information on this and could we use this as an effective argument to stop the SCCA from moving the 02 to 04 MCS's to D stock along with the 05?

RR rcrogers@3rdwav.com

 

Anther confirmation:

Hi, Cory,

Just wanted to let you know that your letter has been logged 04-572 and sent to the SEB and SAC for their consideration.

Thanks for your support of our club and solo.


- Doug

 

I just received my confirmation. Let's keep the letters coming.



[size=2]Hi, Ron,[/size]
[size=2]Just wanted to let you know that your letter has been logged 04-551 and sent to the SEB and SAC for their consideration.[/size]

[size=2]Thanks for your support of our club and solo.[/size]



[size=2] - Doug[/size]

[size=2]Doug Gill[/size]
[size=2]SCCA Solo Technical Manager[/size]
[size=2]1-800-770-2055[/size]
[size=2]dgill@scca.com or[/size]
[size=2]solotech@scca.com[/size]

 

[size=2]Here is another from my pop's....................

Hi, Ken,
Just wanted to let you know that your letter has been logged 04-552 and sent to the SEB and SAC for their consideration.

Thanks for your support of our club and solo.



- Doug

Doug Gill

SCCA Solo Technical Manager

1-800-770-2055

dgill@scca.com or

solotech@scca.com

[/size]

 

post 16 in this thread

#16
07-13-2004, 12:44 PM
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Moderator :: Racing & Competion Forums
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Posts: 542


My opinion- 05 MCS DS, for the following reasons-
#1 Protest Issues. As the protester, you will have to put up the money for the protest, and tear down of the tranny. If the 05 is found to have a LSD the offender pays the money. This is too much hassle, money and time involved. At Topeka, I could see this happening- on the local level it is up to the competetor to be honest.

#2 Precedence is there for the split of years.
ES/CS Miatas .2 liter displacement (+12hp, +10 ft.lbs.), Torsen vs Viscous LSD, .5" wider wheels.
AS/BS S2000 .2 liter displacement (no HP increase, torque comes on lower and is higher 162 vs.153), .5" wider front/1" wider rear/1" larger wheels.
DS/BS BMW 330i perf. package. Don't know specifics- anyone??
The LSD on the MINI is equal to any of the above situations esp. the Miatas (7 more hp, LSD vs 10% effective viscous).

#3 If all MCS goes to DS, the following changes will need to be made (or at least cases for the moves will be there)- All Miatas to CS (not ES as is in the current member comment stage). All 330i's to BS. All S2000s to AS.

I have no dog in this fight, other than as an 01 S2000 owner, I do not want to run AS, after giving up the overdog in HStock.

The down side will be MINIs at the top of 4 classes (HS, GS, DS,(one third of all stock classes) and STX) and point #1 is a weak argument. Feel free to use these points w/ the SEB. Better if we can get the specifics on the BMW 330i.

Chris

 

I e-mailed my short plea to the SEB. Is this OK or do we have to write an acutal letter?

 

The post I started on the SCCA forums got a LOT of responses and opinons!

http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultima...p/topic/18/758

Some good points made on both sides, but, the '04 and older MCS should stay in G-stock. No-brainer IMO.

 

I'll answer my own question

Hi, Mark,

Just wanted to let you know that your letter has been logged 04-576 and sent to the SEB and SAC for their consideration.

Thanks for your support of our club and solo.



- Doug

Doug Gill

SCCA Solo Technical Manager [/size]

1-800-770-2055

dgill@scca.com or

solotech@scca.com

 

Agreed some of those arguements are borderline scary in their ignorance.

You forgot to mention the changed supercharger for '05. Sure it is the coating but if that is a source of hp then it would need to be updated also. I added it in my reply.

Patrick

 

The Honda S2000 is in two classes. The new one is in A Stock and the older ones are in B Stock. The Miatas are also split in two classes by engine size.

 

S2K will be in one class after Topeka this year. A or B is the question.

 

I figured the 05 MCS would be in D stock anyway with the available LSD, but I didn't think they were going to move ALL MCS to DS! My car is SM now anyway, and I want to trade for a Cabrio w/LSD (i Know not the best Auto-x car, but I really want a convertible!), so I'm not personally affected, but it doesn't make any sense to me. They had the MCS in DS in 02 and apparantly moved it to GS because it wasn't competetive. What says the 02-04 MCS will be competetive in DS now? How can 163 hp and FWD compete with a 227 hp awd WRX? I will definitely send a letter to SCCA. If enough of us chime in, perhaps they will reconsider.

 

If we remove the 02-04 MCS from G stock will we have a spec class remaining? See the results from Topeka
http://ww2.scca.com/soloresults.php?ID=31

 

SEB recommendations from last week's meeting are posted at:
http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/18/825#000000

Posted on SCCAForums.com by an SEB member. These recommendations
still need to be approved by the SCCA BOD but apparently they
generally accept the SEB's recommendations.

Here are the contents of that post:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, first things first, flak jackets are on.....

Here are the minutes showing the classing decisions everyone has
been waiting on.

SOLO EVENTS BOARD

The Solo Events Board met by conference call September 29th.
Attending were SEB members Colan Arnold, Marcus Merideth, Ron Bauer,
Chris Dorsey, Mark Sirota, Mari Clements, Mark Sipe, and Andy
Hollis; and Bob Introne of the BOD. The following minutes are
presented in topical rather than chronological order.

SOLO II GENERAL ITEMS
• The Southeast Division and Northeast Division positions on the
SEB
will be vacant at the end of 2004. Interested applicants should send
their qualifications in writing to the SEB and BOD via the National
Office.
• Nominations from the membership are requested for the following
awards: Driver of the Year, Rookie of the Year, Solo Cup, and Driver
of Eminence. Descriptions of these awards may be found in Appendix K
of the National Solo rule book.

SOLO II STOCK CATEGORY
• Per the SAC, the following class change proposals (effective
1/1/2005) have been recommended in the form below to the BOD:
ITEM 1: Move from BS to AS: Porsche Boxster non-S, Honda S2000
('00-
'03), BMW Z4 (all)
ITEM 2: Move from CS to ES: Mazda Miata 1.8 ('94-'97), BMW Z3
4-cyl
• The following previously-published class change proposals have
been withdrawn:
Move from CS to ES: Porsche 914 1.7, 1.8, 2.0
Move from GS to DS: Mini Cooper S (`02+)
• The proposal to remove the Porsche GT3 from the Stock exclusion
list and add it to SS is still under discussion.

SOLO II STRET PREPARED CATEGORY
• The following previously-published class change proposals have
been withdrawn:
Move from ESP to BSP: Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX Sti

ITEMS REFERRED TO THE APPLICABLE COMMITTEES
• SAC: Possible DS to GS moves
• STAC: ST front/rear wings, rule wording

TECH BULLETINS
1) Stock: The following new listings, effective immediately upon
publication, are added in Appendix A:
Mini Cooper S (`05+) GS
2) Stock, Errors and Omissions: the correct form of the new Saab
Aero and Linear listings is as follows:
Saab 9-2X Linear GS (ref. 04-582)
Saab 9-2X Aero DS (ref. 04-582)
3) Street Touring, Errors and Omissions: The previously published
proposal to amend 14.2.F has been corrected to read: Add to 14.2
F. "The total surface area of all spoilers and rear wing may not
exceed 8 square feet as seen from above."

Ron
_________________
Cy
67 GS

 

Looks like I'm now going to order a 2005 MCS with LSD!!! I just sold the 2004 MCS 2 days ago, that was quick, I'm already coming back to Mini!!!!

 

My initial reaction was "gotta get an '05 w/ LSD" too -- it will definitely be "THE CAR TO HAVE" in GS, but I am concerned by this statement (made on another board by SEB member Andy Hollis):

<quote>
One final note is that the '05 Mini is classed on a separate line. As a new listing, that allows it to be moved at any time during the next 12 months. <snip /> Call it a back-up plan.
</quote>

This means an investment in an '05 MCS could be wasted if, in the middle of the season, they decide to move the '05 MCS's in to DS after all...

 

By the time we have to wait a year to get a new S they may get moved to D Stock

 

IMO, even if its moved to DS, it will still be competitive. Heck, I was able to hang with Grainger(DS integra, 10th at nats) at the st louis divisional and I think I actually beat Fitzpatrick in his national championship integra at a local event. 9 out of 10 without the LSD, I'm sure they would have beaten me, but with LSD, I'm OPTIMISTIC that I would have been able to hang competitively the majority of the time in DS nationally. Only time will tell however, hopefully I'm right. If not, they won't move the 05 MCS to DS because it won't be competitive. I think the SEB is willing to hand the GS reigns over to the MCS since the Celica has dominated GS the last 3 years with championship wins.

 

As strange as it seems, I think we should all feel comfortable going out to buy an '05, even if they do put it in D Stock where it belongs. It's clearly going to be faster than they think. Heck, my guess is they are basing things of the rain times at Nationals, forgetting that it rained.

There's nobody on the SEB that has driven MINIs as much as the rest of us have. I've done the comparison back-to-back, with an Quaife in a stock car vs. a non-LSD. It's VERY clear it's worth about 1.5-2 seconds on a 60 second course. Granted, the LSD isn't a Quaife, but the rumor mill has that it's a Torsen. Good enough.

It's a shame they made the decision this way, I'm still going to send a letter with arguments to put it in D Stock where it belongs. With this situation, you kill off the Celicas AND the pre-'05 MINI S's, not a good idea. However, there's apparently some thoughts about other D Stock cars coming down.... But I still feel the '05 MINI S LSD car will be one of the fastest in the current D Stock.

Will I be able to get an '05? Doubt it, but I'm gonna try... I'm prepping my car for sale if I can't...I think...

Brian

 

If this goes thru......THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! Maybe those letters to the SEB helped after all.

 

Minifinn, do you have an '05 on order? Or did you not catch the fact that the '05 with LSD is in the SAME class as the earlier models?

Brian

 

Reading this too early in the morning. "05 in G stock" From the frying pan into the fire. Oh well, typical Monday. Gee thanks Brian.

 

I wonder what cars we will have in the spring?

A note to Minifinn -- don't be surprised if I show up with an 05 MCS. Chris (husband and co-driver) was really talking me into to it last night on the ride home.

Is anyone else afraid of the term "sandbagger" -- if I do get an 05 MCS w/LSD, it will only be with the intention of being moved to DS.

 

Boilermini,

Go for the '05. Just remember to order ALL the heavy options if you stay in G stock.