I assume that the parts will now be available to set up cars to the Euro MINI Challenge spec. All of those cars were finished to spec at the John Cooper Works facility for that series. Inquiries in the past to them and MINI USA to purchase their racing parts were declined, that is the reason there are no FIA spec cars in the USA. We have one of the MCS cars that was race prepared by Scottsdale MINI, I believe there are about 14. We are not currently racing but will take a look at the new spec.

 

while I understand the reasoning for going to a full FIA spec in 2007, there is only one way to accomplish this and have the cars equal - all car prep needs to be carried out by one company. I am hoping that this is the direction that Phil intends taking, especially with Pete Taylor involved. Sky-Tec is more than capable of building safe cars that are equal in performance.

Just as the Euro series are "arrive and drive", the US series should follow suit.

However, ask any shop that deals with rally cars, there are untold nightmares in making any car in the US legal to run to FIA spec. Group N (rally) is FIA spec only, not even "meets or exceeds" is acceptable. So any cage must come from a European supplier (after meeting FIA crash tests - read $$$), and must be metric. 40 mm is acceptable, but 1 5/8" or 1 3/4 " tubing is not even though it is locally available at 1/3 the cost. ALL safety equipment is going to have to be to FIA spec, SFI will not be acceptable. Ask Phil how long it took to get one cage through US customs, now multiply that by say 20 cars.

The continuing decline of the dollar vs the Euro is going to make the cars expensive to build, and that will reflect in the arrive and drive price. Ask any of the Mini racers on this board how expensive it is to build a race Mini. Now imagine adding 50% to that cost purely because the cars must meet FIA spec. That is crazy.

As one of the previous posters mentioned, the best way to increase participation is to write the rules so that an SCCA legal Mini and a NASA legal Mini and a USTCC Mini can compete. Sure it would take some headscratching, but there is hardly a surfeit of Mini race cars in the US. The rules need to be more inclusive rather than exclusive. Give the highly modd'd Mini's a place to play - but that class is never going to grow large when it takes a huge financial commitment to even show up.

If you look at the current racers, there is a significant % who are also vendors of Mini products. Walen, Brian, Randy, myself. What is the incentive for these vendors to come and compete if the series is a "spec" one with "arrive and drive" pricing? zero.

Another problem with the "arrive and drive" concept is that the the fields are made up of about 50% regular racers and the other 50% is made up of field fillers - local celebs, media hounds, sponsor spokesman, and possibly the race directors kid. While this makes for full fields, it can also be frustrating for the regular racers. Witness Peter Windsor's crash at Spa in 2005. Witness the bad press the challenge receieved at Imola last week for oiling down the pitlane. And witness any "arrive and drive" series and compare that to a series where the car owners are the drivers. There tends to be a lot more physical contact when the driver does not own the car (not always though - witness any SCCA showroom stock class).

Any idea of costs for the arrive and drive? I thought I had seen 6500 pounds listed for the UK series. Say about $8000 for the year. Then add in travel and accomodation, as well as personal safety gear, and the cost is well over $10K. Not too bad compared to some series, but that $10K would almost cover buying and running a spec Miata locally for a year (not head of the pack, but certainly mid-field). And you own the car at the end of the year.

I had great fun in Las Vegas, and will be attending the St Louis races too. Depending on the participation in St Louis I will decide whether to do more racers this year or not. I wish Phil the best of luck with the series regardless, and hope it becomes very successful.

 

Nicely put, Bones.

 

Yes ..Well said

NASA has a nice set of rules for SPEC MINI ..CHALLENGE

Allows moderate mods, H-Sport front and rear sway ... I have tried to follow that

 

Here is a simple suggestion to keep the points straightforward:

Since the UK only has two classes, one for the Cooper and one for the S, I think it would be reasonable to award EXTRA points only for the fastest lap OVERALL and the OVERALL win. That takes care of how many cars are in each class, etc.

If we run a class 3 car, we have a better chance of winning the overall event - which makes no sense if the class 4 and 5 cars are running with competition.

Hope that makes sense...

 

Excellent point DR61 - I have become more and more aware of the fact that a dual-purpose street/race car is pretty much a pipe dream, and that racing is expensive no matter how you slice it. For example, I was just looking at the cost of race suits, shoes, gloves, helmets, and HANS devices...a minimum of about $2Gs just for that stuff!

Spec Miata seems to make the most sense from a price and competition perspective - but even from what I understand of that series, the racing is so bump and grind that you are bound to have body damage to repair during the season.

Now I know why watching Speed World Challenge it typically seems like a bunch of older, out-of-shape, and apparently very wealthy guys out there mixin' it up...

 

Only time will tell .....SPEC MINIs ....May be the NEXT CRAZE !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am crazy about mine and if anyone thinks they are just a street car with a few mods, they are very mistaken.

Our lap times at Laguna were not that far off the unlimited WMS car, less than 1 sec.

 

I'm sure your Mini's quick, but this doesn't make sense. I was there watching and timing the race - Randy was about about 30 sec. in front of the next MINI (the 'Vette and the classic Mini were closer) after only 5 laps.

 

Qualifying times is what I was referring to. Of note, I ran 2nd during the race until two wheel studs broke entering the corkscrew causing my retirement (studs broke after Randy pulled over).

 

So I've been reading this and just don't know what to say. No matter what Phil does somebody isn't going to think it is fair. Yes I am currently leading the points, so the rules are working for me. But the big problem is we need more racers. It's not mine or Brian's fault that we are the only 2 that drove our cars to the races and no one else showed up in our class. I thought that was what Phil and MINI wanted. Just average people like us to put a roll cage in their car and come race. I would love to race someone else in my class, but I just have to go against cars that are faster than mine, OK so be it. I'am doing this to have fun and promote my business. Also I drive my car to all the events like Brian so we can prove the reliability of the products we use on our cars. Also I can't afford a truck and trailer. Anyhow, Racing is expensive and I have to respect anyone doing it. If I didn't spend all the money on the car WMW would have a nice new shop.

As for giving bonus points for the overall win or fastest lap that can't be done. As it would always be a group 5 car with lots of $$$$ in it. No one in groups 1-4 could ever beat them for either fastest lap or overall. Now maybe give bonus points if a car in a slower class were to beat a faster class such as a group 3 car beating a group 4 or group 2 beating group 3. Because that means you actually were doing something right to be able to beat a car that was faster than yours. You then beat the other driver.

These are all just ideas and this is just a TEST Series to see how they want things to work next year.

I'am not trying to start something I just want to put in my 2 cents.

 

If I didn't need a roll cage and seats I would have ran at Sebring; If I didn't need a roll cage, I'd be running a two more events this year, I believe I knowmany othere that would be in the same boat. Phil has done qutie a bit to make it fair for the racers, have a level playing field and get the instruction nessacry to be able to race (it no longer takes a year to get apporved to race). I think the line from those who would like to compete to who is able to compete is crossed when you need a roll cage, because when you reach that level of work being done on the car you are limiting it to being a race car for the most part. Those who have MINIs as a weekend or summer car aren't going to want to have to deal with a roll cage and full harness every single time they get in. I know, expect to total it and all of that I have read earlier in this thread, but following the NASA model (mainly because that is the one I am more familiar with) if it weren't for the need of a roll cage I'd love to run spec MINI the way the rules are currently setup, and I think that there are many people out there who would be in the same boat. And NASA has extremely strict penalties for coming in contact with other vehicles that prevent many wrecks from occuring. So in the mean time I'll be able to keep doing HPDE and TT until I can justify putting a cage in what is otherwise a daily driver, and I believe there are enought people in the HPDE crowd who would love to give it a go in a couple of these races, and were very excited when Phil announced that this seris was designed to encourage more drivers to come out and race at low cost but spending min $4k on safety equipment just to prep the car is still too high a cost to attract a large crowd, and then add on top of that the cage which bring about the threats of divorce mentioned earlier and you have narrowed it down to a very small crowd of those you can participate.
I know Phil is doing what he can to have a level playing field and jeep the seris open to as many people as possible. Thats my .02 from someone who would love to run in the seris but sees that lack of competition as a result of the extent to which the cars need to be preped.

Perhaps it would help you to finish reading the part about being grandfathered in before posting, you can still run just the UK challenge is not going t o be the prize.

 

I would like to add a goood point to this discussion,

I am currently not racing, but we are getting a "race" car ready,
wich will include roll cage, fire system, master switch.....

I understand some of you use the car during the week and/or cannot afford to modify your car into a full race car,

But please, do not forget Motorsports is a dangerous sport, accidents do also happen in Time Trials and HPDE events.

If you drive on the track, you need to keep that in mind,
If you race, you need all the required safety equipment.

So whatever you do or how you do it, just keep it safe.

Victor

 

Way, I've been talking to Phil also about the point system, In case you did not read my earlier posts...Rewarding bonus points for fastest lap is a class bonus, not overall. Same goes for pole in class.
What does not make sense is to award bonus points for either items if a class participant has no one else in his class.
It's pretty silly to acept pole in class, fastest lap in class as well as a first in class if you have no competitor in your class.
Bonus points should be awarded to winners in a class with more than one car in class.
Sure wish more cars would appear in future events.
Racing is competition, that's why I do it.
Regards,
Steve