R56 Gas tank capacity question
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,113
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Not so sure about capacity now. miniusa.com shows under the fuel economy section the mpg with a 10.6 gallon tank. Manual says 10.6 including reserve of 2.1 gallon, which would make total 12.7? Could that be the reason some fillups are getting 12+ gallons on a MC?
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
From: Central Texas
Read back a ways. Capacity includes reserve.
The only speculation is that some MCs got the larger tank (lucky!). I wonder if it's a direct swap? If someone has the smaller tank, get a larger one from a salvage.
The only speculation is that some MCs got the larger tank (lucky!). I wonder if it's a direct swap? If someone has the smaller tank, get a larger one from a salvage.
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
I had the exact same experience. Went to put the first tank of gas in my brand new 07 MC and with 4 lights still lit, I put 11.2 gal in a 10.6 gal tank ?? Has anyone talked to a dealer about this ? Mine just shrugs his shoulders and says "fill it up at the halfway mark" - not helpful !
No more speculating.
1st Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29
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Thank you soo much for clarifying things for me. I just picked up my 2007 MC yesterday. I put 250 miles on it already and it was telling me I still had about 300 more miles to go (I'm getting ~39.8 mpg). I thought my on-board computer was screwed up already. You made me a very happy smiley!
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
From: Central Texas
This article talks to the suggestion that pumps are calibrated and never off. The owners would be fined, and they're constantly tested.
Well here in Texas, the testing schedule is once every 4 years. There are 72 inspectors for the whole state. And the fine is only $25/pump-not much disincentive to cheat. Only 90% of pumps are found to be in compliance.
http://keyetv.com/topstories/local_story_143173614.html
Well here in Texas, the testing schedule is once every 4 years. There are 72 inspectors for the whole state. And the fine is only $25/pump-not much disincentive to cheat. Only 90% of pumps are found to be in compliance.
http://keyetv.com/topstories/local_story_143173614.html
(CBS 42) AUSTIN Gas stations found short changing drivers will have to pay a bigger fine.
Monday night, in an exclusive CBS 42 investigation, we uncovered gas stations cited for cheating you out of the gas you pay for.
Now, CBS 42’s Gregg Watson follows up his story with how the government is cracking down.
Imagine shelling out for record prices at the pump and not getting all you pay for. We checked state inspection reports and found that happening at several stations around town.
Now, the Department of Agriculture hopes by making stations pay more, you won't have to.
"I make sure that the advertised price is actually what's showing on the pump," Greg George said.
George is one of 72 state inspectors making sure when you fill up, it adds up.
But our investigation found when inspectors were at a Shell station on Highway 183 last February, they said drivers were being duped.
"We never shorted customers,” store manager Nagi Afzal said. “We have inspectors inspecting on a regular basis. If we were shorting the customers, we would not be in business right now."
Some drivers filling up say they never thought the pumps may not add up.
"People don't usually stay in business if they're not doing that right thing," driver Jeff Lewis said.
"I guess that could happen,” driver Peter Treece said. “Was it on purpose?"
The Department of Agriculture says most problems at the pump are mechanical.
A consumer complaint led inspectors to a Chevron on West Anderson Lane. They tested five gallons, but didn't get the full five.
“We're you guys fined? Do you know if you we're fined?” CBS 42’s Gregg Watson asked.
“Oh no, no fine," store manager John Son said.
That will change.
The Agriculture Department will increase fines for stations that short customers from 25 to $100 per pump.
With pumped up prices, they want drivers to get every ounce.
"Gas prices are high enough without consumers being short changed at the pump," said Todd Staples, commissioner of the Texas Depart of Agriculture.
This is the first time since 1996 there's been an increase in fines. It's something the Texas Petroleum Marketers support.
"Higher penalties will encourage businesses to maintain compliance on their own," president of Texas Petroleum Marketers Chris Newton said.
Inspectors say more than 90 percent of the pumps in Texas are in compliance. They would like every pump that way.
The new fines kick in Friday.
Unless there's a complaint, the Department of Agriculture only checks pumps once every four years. They usually get 800 to 900 complaints a year. Since prices have gone up, complaints have gone up 109 percent.
Monday night, in an exclusive CBS 42 investigation, we uncovered gas stations cited for cheating you out of the gas you pay for.
Now, CBS 42’s Gregg Watson follows up his story with how the government is cracking down.
Imagine shelling out for record prices at the pump and not getting all you pay for. We checked state inspection reports and found that happening at several stations around town.
Now, the Department of Agriculture hopes by making stations pay more, you won't have to.
"I make sure that the advertised price is actually what's showing on the pump," Greg George said.
George is one of 72 state inspectors making sure when you fill up, it adds up.
But our investigation found when inspectors were at a Shell station on Highway 183 last February, they said drivers were being duped.
"We never shorted customers,” store manager Nagi Afzal said. “We have inspectors inspecting on a regular basis. If we were shorting the customers, we would not be in business right now."
Some drivers filling up say they never thought the pumps may not add up.
"People don't usually stay in business if they're not doing that right thing," driver Jeff Lewis said.
"I guess that could happen,” driver Peter Treece said. “Was it on purpose?"
The Department of Agriculture says most problems at the pump are mechanical.
A consumer complaint led inspectors to a Chevron on West Anderson Lane. They tested five gallons, but didn't get the full five.
“We're you guys fined? Do you know if you we're fined?” CBS 42’s Gregg Watson asked.
“Oh no, no fine," store manager John Son said.
That will change.
The Agriculture Department will increase fines for stations that short customers from 25 to $100 per pump.
With pumped up prices, they want drivers to get every ounce.
"Gas prices are high enough without consumers being short changed at the pump," said Todd Staples, commissioner of the Texas Depart of Agriculture.
This is the first time since 1996 there's been an increase in fines. It's something the Texas Petroleum Marketers support.
"Higher penalties will encourage businesses to maintain compliance on their own," president of Texas Petroleum Marketers Chris Newton said.
Inspectors say more than 90 percent of the pumps in Texas are in compliance. They would like every pump that way.
The new fines kick in Friday.
Unless there's a complaint, the Department of Agriculture only checks pumps once every four years. They usually get 800 to 900 complaints a year. Since prices have gone up, complaints have gone up 109 percent.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
From: Central Texas
Resurrecting and old thread with some new data
More than 100 pumps shorting consumers, ag report says
compliance with standards is currently only 92% (actually dropped), fines increased to $100 first offense, $200 second offense.
Texas Department of Agriculture has authority in Texas
EDIT: was curious-they use 6 tablespoons per 5 gallons and 12 tablespoons per 5 gallons as fineable offenses. 256 tablespoons in a gallon. So these equate to 0.5% and 1% shortages.
More than 100 pumps shorting consumers, ag report says
compliance with standards is currently only 92% (actually dropped), fines increased to $100 first offense, $200 second offense.
Texas Department of Agriculture has authority in Texas
EDIT: was curious-they use 6 tablespoons per 5 gallons and 12 tablespoons per 5 gallons as fineable offenses. 256 tablespoons in a gallon. So these equate to 0.5% and 1% shortages.
Last edited by dwjj; Aug 1, 2007 at 09:42 AM.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,550
Likes: 1
From: Texas
I have been meaning to post that information as well. They need to kick the fines substantially higher as right now, it is cheaper to pay the fines than to stop cheating.
Those fines were assigned back when gas was $0.18 per gallon.
Those in the list are a result of spot checks. Just because you station is not in the list does not mean it is not cheating you.
I do my own tests. I have to buy gas for my lawn mower. I have a 2 gallon container I use. I took an industrial measuing cup and poured in exactly 2 gallons of water, then marked the the level on the container. I just fill it up to that mark. So far, the station I buy from has been right on the money.
Those fines were assigned back when gas was $0.18 per gallon.
Those in the list are a result of spot checks. Just because you station is not in the list does not mean it is not cheating you.
I do my own tests. I have to buy gas for my lawn mower. I have a 2 gallon container I use. I took an industrial measuing cup and poured in exactly 2 gallons of water, then marked the the level on the container. I just fill it up to that mark. So far, the station I buy from has been right on the money.
Last edited by Skuzzy; Jul 31, 2007 at 11:14 AM.
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
One of the things I recently read about was that the gas pumps are calibrated at 60 degrees, and gasoline does tend to expand quite a bit based on temperature. The article had discussed how expensive it would be to retrofit all of the pumps with temperature sensitive pumps, since technically we're paying for energy...a gallon of gasoline at 80 degrees has less energy than a gallon of gas at 60 degrees. So temperature does play a role - fill up on a hot day, and your gas mileage will appear to drop.
My vote isn't so much for the pumps to regulate based on temperature, but to adjust the price based on temperature. As it gets hotter during the day, the price of gas goes down, and vice versa...
My vote isn't so much for the pumps to regulate based on temperature, but to adjust the price based on temperature. As it gets hotter during the day, the price of gas goes down, and vice versa...
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
From: Central Texas
Thermal coefficient of gasoline is 950**10^-6 (per degree C)
I think the way that works is each C increase in temp results in 1.000950 volume change. Say 67F tank temperature underground to 120F vehicle tank temp (really hot day, black pavement), that's a shift from 19.44C to 48.89C or a 29.4444C delta T, 1.000950 ^^ 29.4444 = 1.028353 or roughly 3% increase in volume.
Another factor would be the effect of the warmer gas on the motor and power produced. Since it's warmer and less dense, there'd be fewer BTUs per gallon available. To do the same amount of work moving the car, an equally larger increase in fuel pumped would be needed to compensate, right?
You don't magically get higher mileage on a hotter day...
I'm going to pump early in the morning, though. Even if it's only a little bit of a difference, I'd take it.
I think the way that works is each C increase in temp results in 1.000950 volume change. Say 67F tank temperature underground to 120F vehicle tank temp (really hot day, black pavement), that's a shift from 19.44C to 48.89C or a 29.4444C delta T, 1.000950 ^^ 29.4444 = 1.028353 or roughly 3% increase in volume.
Another factor would be the effect of the warmer gas on the motor and power produced. Since it's warmer and less dense, there'd be fewer BTUs per gallon available. To do the same amount of work moving the car, an equally larger increase in fuel pumped would be needed to compensate, right?
You don't magically get higher mileage on a hotter day...
I'm going to pump early in the morning, though. Even if it's only a little bit of a difference, I'd take it.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 5
From: Hot Springs Village, AR
Glad to find that out about the MC. But what about the MCS? The book says 13.2 (from memory, not manual) is the capacity INCLUDING reserve, but I've heard from the dealer that the book is wrong. Anyone have the guts to test the numbers? Is there a reserve above this? My gauge seems a bit off, but I'm too chicken to test the limits.
I hate walking on the freeway...
I hate walking on the freeway...
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,966
Likes: 1
Glad to find that out about the MC. But what about the MCS? The book says 13.2 (from memory, not manual) is the capacity INCLUDING reserve, but I've heard from the dealer that the book is wrong. Anyone have the guts to test the numbers? Is there a reserve above this? My gauge seems a bit off, but I'm too chicken to test the limits.
I hate walking on the freeway...
I hate walking on the freeway...
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 5
From: Hot Springs Village, AR
Nah, Skuz--been sailing in the BVI... Actually chief Galley Slave for 6 people--I don't like the sailing part, so it was my contribution.
Great snorkeling, though!
(Um--Lynn--still on island time--what is LTNS???)
Great snorkeling, though!
(Um--Lynn--still on island time--what is LTNS???)
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
From: Central Texas
Glad to find that out about the MC. But what about the MCS? The book says 13.2 (from memory, not manual) is the capacity INCLUDING reserve, but I've heard from the dealer that the book is wrong. Anyone have the guts to test the numbers? Is there a reserve above this? My gauge seems a bit off, but I'm too chicken to test the limits.
I hate walking on the freeway...
I hate walking on the freeway...
I have a feeling there is a little "reserve" left in the 13.2 to make sure people don't habitually run the tank too low, so that there's always sufficient fuel in the tank splashing around to keep the fuel motor and pump cooler.