You drive a Toyota, why are you trying to patronize people? Isn't there a kitchen appliance you're better suited to comparatively critique?

 

Oh the irony.

 

Patronize? treat condescendingly? disdainful?

Since I did own a JCW MCS I do know a little bit about the cars and I did have rust in the door sills but hey ... what do I know? I can only talk to what I owned after all.

Are you not you treating Toyotas in a condescending manner? After all, there IS a reason they are going to become the #1 car maker in the world this year and it does have something to do with quality.

Are you saying I drive an appliance? Hmm. Yup, a very good appliance at that. One most likely to be useful for a very long time if history serve. So, whats your point? Appliances aren't good?

Is it maybe you think because I don't have a MINI anymore and drive a sporty car like that I can't discuss sporty cars?:impatient

Sigh ... That sure is mean

In fact, its very mean ... I'm relegated to just discussing appliances? I'm better suited? to just discussing appliances???? Mean, mean

 

As someone taking delivery on my '07 in the morning, I will grant you that the mood lighting is beyond stupid. Reminds me of the driving scene in Rocky Horror oh so many years ago. Somebody break out into song as the cabin of the car is backlit.

And do I care about the huge speedometer (no, I didn't use the kitsch language of the brits in saying speedo, bonnet and boot)? No, my experience from driving is that I never look that way. And with the MFSW, which, I might add, my MA ordered without hiccup, I will hardly ever look that way to change the radio.

I do like the leg room and head room at 6'2". The controls are useful/fun. And the seats (even with a codpiece), do well for this Texan. Well, enough parentheticals.

Ah, to dream of tearing up some road. Thinking of naming it Grendel.

 

Yo Skippy

Since Homme has relegated me to just talking about "appliances",
I think maybe you should also be relegated to just talking about tracking Evos.

After all, just because you owned a MINI too, I dont see why you get to talk about them I can't

Fair is fair

 

Now you're just being childish.

At the heart of this is your two-faced approach to the R53/R56 debate. You chide others for splitting the community through infighting - all while instigating new fights yourself. When someone calls you on it - you can't even stand behind your own words.

No wonder you had to trade in your MINI. The ride would have been especially punishing with so soft a spine.

 

You will LOVE your new MINI. What colour did you get?

 

EGADS come on. Attacks on cars Personal attacks

 

In no way have I instigated infighting,

I pointed out a fact. RUST. Go read the RUST threads. You might not like the "fact" but facts are facts. Have you actually read all the issues with the R53?

And I had to explictly spelled out that example for you because you didnt seem to understand. That's a soft spine? Because you didn't understand? Lets see. HERE you wrote:

You don't understand a comment, so you instantly assume it's derogatory. Frankly if you're going to be that antagonistic, I'd rather not explain anything for you.

Are you not doing exactly what you called out the other guy for doing to you?

This thread is about to get locked (and that will be a shame because skippy and Edge had good reviews) because I think maybe you have forgotten about the "respect" rules. I have never thrown personal insults at anyone on NAM. Your on the borderline.

Childish? Hyperbole, yes, but I guess you missed that bit of humour so theres no point in explaining it ... just like you said.

I guess us appliance driver are just not capable of bringing up facts upon these sporty cars. BTW, do you have a R53 or R56?

 

It isn't about Rust. It was your B&W TV / Colour TV analogy. You brought up rust, later, in an attempt to just stir up more crap.

Maybe instead of reading through my post history for something to throw at me (why?), why not just read the thread?

 

Stir up. RUST is a fact. We can't discuss facts anymore???

OK, last time.

And I can't be anymore clear than this since the analogy didn't do it.

If someone has a R53, then that is all they know. They will never know what the R56 is like. Why?

Because you don't know what you don't know.

Simple as that. They are not going to experience the turbo anymore more than someone with a b&w TV is going to see color.

That is NOT instigating anything, its a fact.

IB4TL

 

No - you're right. I read too much into it. I thought you were insinuating that one was inherently superior over the other (B&W vs. Colour). You meant something completely different - that "you don't know what you don't know."

My apologies.

 

It's what sold me on the car.

 

Then it was a misunderstanding. I'm glad I cleared it up. Yeah, I meant you don't know what you don't know.

Apology accepted.

BTW, I was not trying to be antagonisic towards you or come across that way. Sometimes the Internet is a difficult place to communicate. BTW, my "mean" remark was meant as hyperbole. Sometimes the humour of NAM gets lost in the translation.

 

Have you seen the new flip-paint MINIs?

 

I took my 2005 R53 in for some warranty work and while waiting got a first hand look at a Laser Blue R56 (Hammer & Coop). Of all the things I liked best about the new MINI, I think I REALLY liked the look and feel of the new leatherette seats.

The MA at the dealership, is a fellow from NAM, named Chris. He asked if I wanted to take one for a spin.

So I got my first test drive in a Sparkling Silver/Black R56. Up till now, I've been trying to find things to like about the R56--I really didn't like how it looked in the photos, but in person, it wasn't as grotesque as I thought.

No in fact, some of the little improvements were quite welcome. The convenience feature of not having to unlock the doors with the key or the remote is cool. So is the start/stop button-- not that that's a revolutionary feature--my step mothers IS250 has those features as well. The larger pull bar for sliding the seats was nice--though maybe a little too conventional.

The Sport Mode was pretty cool--could definitely feel the stiffer/more stabilized steering response. Stomping on the gas was better in sport mode. Overall, I was left with a feeling that the R56 despite some of it's uglier points--the climate controls, the outside side vents--the loss of the bonnet vents so the bonnet seems less articulated, the new outside mirrors, the fake hood scoop (it's blocked) were offset by some of the cooler things like the double tilting sunroofs, the mirror controls on the door, the overhead toggles (though the new shape is somewhat disappointing), additional storage, the backseat reclining grabs.

When I got back in my 2005 MCS, I was wondering if I'd feel that my MCS was going to have that "old obsolete" car feeling after driving the latest, and happily for me--it may have been the latest, but it wasn't the greatest. Stomping on the gas, and hearing the pulleyed supercharger spool up was music to my ears. I still love my MCS, and maybe one day I'll more easily accept all these changes when they are in completely different platform, i.e. the Traveller.

 

Thank for sharing your opinions and observations, Oct guy.
As long as your happy motoring in your MINI, in the end, isn't that the important part.

 

The day finally arrived. After months of waiting, the 'R56' MINI was for sale in North America. I had seen plenty of pictures on the internet for months now and disguised cars captured in testing variations by the automotive press for over a year, but now I finally had the opportunity to see the new MINI in the sheet metal.

My family took a trip to Century MINI in Greenville, SC to see the '07 MINIs. After a 2 ½ hour drive, we arrived just after lunch time. The new MINIs were lined up facing the dealer. There were Coopers in Chili Red, Pepper White and Mellow Yellow, and the Cooper S was available in Sparkling Silver and Mellow Yellow. Unfortunately, the color I have been most anxious to see in person, Laser Blue, was not present. The dealer had received a car in their launch shipment, but it was purchased on Saturday.

Now I must confess, I've not had much experience with MINIs. I had visited Century MINI on a cold, wet, dreary day in November and test driven a 2005 Chili Red Cooper S at the local BMW dealer. Other than that, I've just been window shopping.

After checking out the 2007 MINIs on the lot as well as some of the 2006 models still available, I had an opportunity to speak with a woman who has a 2006 Chili Red Cooper S who had just finished test driving the Sparkling Silver Cooper S. She was thrilled with the new car and was claiming it was better than her current MINI.

Now it was my turn. I got some seat time in the Mellow Yellow Cooper S. The car seemed to have just the Sport Package. The interior was the checkered cloth with the base checkered dash and grey colorline. The only other option I spotted was the rear fog lights. Not the spec I plan on ordering, but I would definitely get a feel for the road handling ability of the car, which is the reason I'm interested in a MINI anyways.

After getting my son's carseat secured in the rear seat, we headed out for our test drive. The Motoring Advisor guided me to a road they use to demonstrate the cars abilities, which includes a series of challenging corners with significant elevation changes. It was a little too residential though, so it was hard to really open up the throttle. When I pressed hard on the gas, I could feel how ready the engine is to launch the car forward. I had also turned on the Sport Button so that I could feel the difference in the steering response. The few corners that I did take aggressively easily proved that the MINI was beyond anything I have ever driven or owned. I pushed the car through a corner near the end of the run, and I could tell the car wasn't anywhere near its limit even though I had reached mine. I didn't even realize how fast I went through the turn until the MA pointed it out.

Compared to my automotive history of domestic midsize and small cars, the MINI felt very solid all around. The steering wheel was very comfortable and responsive, especially in Sport Mode. The cloth sport seats were snug, but comfortable. The fabric almost feels synthetic and became slightly uncomfortable as the car heated up during the drive. I really didn't adjust the seat or steering wheel, but was still fairly comfortable. I did have an issue when I tried to use the LATCH system of my sons carseat to connect to the lower anchors. The seats fasteners are too wide for the recessed bay so I couldn't use them. I had to secure the seat with the seat belt and the top strap to an anchor in the boot. I really didn't play with any of the controls at all.

The MINI Cooper S is all that I've ever dreamed it to be. If only a Laser Blue Cooper S was on the lot so I could see what that color looked like outside of my computer monitor. It will be a very long year while I wait to purchase my MINI in 2008.

 

Nice writeup

 

That's exactly how I feel about it. I can't even begin to compare the R53 to the R56 in this matter because both cars limits are well beyond mine.

Thanks for the great write-up ...it is much appreciated.

dean.

 

Not true. An R53 owner is capable of making a very objective comparison to the R56 after a good test drive (or two). I would say that the opposite is more the case, because an R56 owner won't know what the R53 is really like. Yes, they could get test drives, but that will become harder and harder to do unless you know friends with R53s (or you find them on a used car lot).

The point is, nobody should be making any kind of attempt at valid comparisons without getting some decent seat time in BOTH. First impressions are one thing... but more seat time is needed. My original post (#25) on this thread was based upon a single test drive. I plan on taking more test drives in the future, to get an even better understanding of the R56.

 

It would be great to have more seat time, but some of us just can't do that, especially first-time MINI buyers.

I drove an R53 for about 20 minutes and based on that and what I had read about the R56 I went ahead and ordered an R56. I have now driven an R56 and to me they are similar enough that I think I'd be happy with either. I'd bet longer times spent in both cars would make for greater differences ...but I'm not sure I want to go there.

dean.

 

Sigh, you just added something to the equation that I did not.

You don't know what you don't know period.

If, in fact, you take a test drive, then you DO know something you didn't know! (I guess I should have made that crystal clear about the R53 driver).

The fact is ... You do not know what you do not know. The moment you find out more information, then you know more than you know and you changed the parameters.

Sorry, Edge, you can't just make assumptions about a proposition that aren't part of the original equation.

 

One could easily say the same thing in reverse - that after one or two test drives of the R56 that the R53 owner does not really know what the R56 is like. I'm sorry - that logic does not stand up. Its a double standard.

Dave Bunting, and Gabe from MotoringFile did in fact spend a lot of time driving the R56 in varying conditions. And unlike other auto journalists they are Mini centric. Frankly I don't put much credence in the review of other auto journalists because they don't know and understand the R53 the way Dave and Gabe do. Their reviews were very fair, both critical and praising. All the rest that has been presented here just appears to have so much baggage attached that I would not let it sway my opinion one way or the other.

 

As much as I admire and Respect Dave and Gabe's opinions, they are not automotive experts. Their perspective is that of a MINI enthusiast not a professional automotive journalist. If Gabe likes the design details of the R56 is simply his opinion, not fact. If Gabe doesn't like the side badges in the new car, you don't have to agree with his assesment either. They represent the MINI "enthusiast" collective as a whole. Gabe has owned 2 MINIs from the previous generation. he obviously understands and likes what the cars are all about. I have owned 3 MINIs and I equally understand the cars. Gabe praises the R56 more, while I generally like the car, I have issues with it. So if you praise the R56 you are then a true enthusiast! But if you "dare" to criticize the car, then you are a troll, you are anti-MINI, you are an idiot, etc.

I personally, tend to put more weight in the obeservations made by a seasoned auto journalist. But then again, car reviews are rarely or shall we say, totally objective. cars invoke different sets of emotions in different people.

In enjoy reading their articles (And of course, Dave's delightful photos) but their opinions and not the end of be all. They simply stamp their impressions and let you decide for yourself. People need to learn to form their own opinions.