I know we are talking about the R56, but my R53 has LSD and that matters not with respect to torque steer.

 

Having read thru this whole thread I am wondering if some people are not confusing torque steer with "tramlining". The two can feel very much the same but with two very different causes.

The suspension engineers can do something to reduce TS. The engineers that spec the wheel & tire combination have a direct effect on whether or not the car tramlines.

The wider the tires the greater the tramline effect. If you are on uneven pavement while accelerating away from a stop sign or light the car can just be reacting to the pavement. Near stops the heavy wear caused by large trucks is the most pronounced. The rutting of the pavement causes the wide tires to deflect from a straight line. Whether or not you are accelerating or just trying to drive straight.

JOHO

 

tramlining isn't related to the car wanting to change lanes when you are on the gas. letting off the gas corrects the trajectory. ruts in the pavement would control the path unrelated to throttle input

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

 

I've been saying this the whole time.

 

This is the best explanation why torque steer happens, even with equal length shafts etc. , that I have found:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ed..._technobabble/

I doubt the front geometry is any worse in the R56, it's just pushing a bit harder on the moment arm about the "Dave Point"(read the article ) .

 

i have seen plenty of technicians and salesmen with DEMO cars abuse the heck out of them on the lot. my favorite is watching the salesman leave the showroom on a cold winter afternoon, go out, start an m3 demo, slap a dealer plate on the trunk, watch black smoke blow out the rear as he revs it, then let it idle for 45 minutes while he finishes up calls at his desk!

 

Here's a torque related quote from a February review by European Car's Karl Funke:

"The new engine on the Cooper S is every bit as powerful as the outgoing unit and then some. At full throttle, torque steer is a force to be reckoned with, but that’s par for the course on any moderately powerful front-drive vehicle. When the turbo starts to spool, hold on tight."

Unfortunately this refutes some of my earlier comments. Oh well, we live and learn.

Here's the review in full:

http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstl...mini_cooper_s/

 

yup. I once test drove an NSX and the salesguy insisted he had to drive it off the lot before I could take over. I wonder if it was required to do 140mph too on a public road before handing me the keys?

 

i had to test drive the new mini s on two seperate weekends just to be sure how much i didn't like to torque steer. it was annoying!!!

 

I have a R56 MCS with LSD, Sports Suspension and All Season Tires on 17" Crown Spoke Wheels. Starting at 2000 RPM+ in 1st. Gear, it has HUGH torque steer - pulling to the left. Less than 200 miles on the vehicle.

 

this is really making me want to test drive one just to see the power of torque steer haha. do modified supercharged s have this problem as well?

 

Nope.

 

yup.

 

haha

 

I've got an R53 with LSD and only a 15% pulley airbox and exhaust (plus some A/S tires with lots of siping - aka lack of grip). Judicious throttle inputs are necessary when accelerating in traffic to stay in my lane. The LSD sends torque to the wheel with grip, causing torque steer. An open diff car doesn't do this (it spins the tire with no grip).

C4 - does your car have LSD?

 

Nope, its a '05 MCS 6MT but no LSD. Also the car is stock. I bet that if I add a 15% pulley and airbox, the torque steer will then become more noticeable. But right now if I punch it out of 1st gear the car will likly spin its wheels but not force the steering wheel out of my grip.

 

It has nothing to do with torque, and everything to do with suspension setup. My turbo R53 has about 280 lb-ft of torque and there's no torque steer. When I drive a stock R53, there's some tugging on the wheel, just like a stock R56. This isn't because of torque, it's because the cars' suspensions aren't set up to specifically minimize torque steer and maximize forward traction. Lower your roll-center, increase your scrub radius, and you'll see how torque has nothing to do with it.

 

The torque steer I've noticed so far isn't that strong. If you're a light-gripper on the wheel, maybe, but it's more of a tug than a pull.

 

Damn. I thought the equal length shafts got rid of torque steer. I used to have 95 Eclipse Turbo and it had a massive torque steer. Even at 60 mph, when I downshifted, it would steer hard to one side and when I first experienced it I almost hit the divider. Since then I have been driving mostly RWD cars. You guys are scaring me.... hmmm.

 

Well you don't need to buy a car based solely on other peoples opinions - don't be scared, just go for a test drive or three

 

I hate torque steer. The demo R56 I drove felt like an RSX-S/Integra or Saab or Eclipse or some other hot FWD car the way the TS made it shoot off in one direction or another under moderate-heavy accelleration--even with LSD To me, with it's equal length drive shafts and less low-end torque, R53 struck an almost perfect balance of FWD performance and lack of significant TS.

It's hard for me to look beyond this. Therefore, until MINI develops and perfects an AWD system that doesn't weigh a fracking ton (perhaps the future M/JCW?) I won't even consider an R56.

And others here who say that MINI has produced a Lexus with R56, I would think more an RSX Type S.

 

So in your opinion, there is less torque steer with R53. Why would the company go in the wrong direction? Maybe R56 has a lot more torque than R53.

 

r56mini I'm not sure they're going in the "wrong" direction, I think it's just the inevitibility of having MUCH more usuable low-end (and across the spectrum) torque in the new, hi-tech, aluminum block, turbo BMW-PSA mill than the old, low-tech, iron block, blown Chrysler mill that needed to approach 2500-3000 rpm to feel the low end of that engine's relatively narrow peak torque curve.

I also speak from being the owner of a bone-stock 2005 R53; those who come from S(tage)2-S3 modded or JCW'd R53s don't notice the R56s TS as much as those who have stock or lightly modded (S1) cars.

 

The only way to eliminate torque steer in a FWD car would be to stiffen the suspension to the point where it does not move, at all. Read the link I posted above. As the car and tires move around there will be points where torque steer is induced. Stiffen the car up (spring rate or stiffer bars) or loose some torque(right foot) and the R56 will show the same torque steer traits as the R53.

Also the flat torque curve on the R56 allows it's torque steer to be felt at any RPM. Put your stock suspended R53s in 2nd and hammer the throttle after cruising at 4000 RPM to get a better idea of what the R56 is like at 2000 RPM and above. You probably don't normally drive that way, but in the R56 that is normal.