Dyno tells true story... R53 has more HP then R56.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=92143

 

Ut oh! I'd better cancel my order ...I want more horsepower !!!



dean.

 

So sounds like the visceral feel from the R53 came from the whine of the supercharger...

...R56 owners will get it from the massive increase in low end torque.

 

The thing is WHP range varies heavily by car. R53's on different dynos experience large gaps in the hp figures, up to 30hp seen on different graphs..

 

Wait a sec. Over on MINI2 one person claimed they tested 100s of First gen cars w/o mods in the variation on bhp were huge. Some were getting as much as 15 bhp less than MINIs claimed and some getting exactly what MINI claims.

I would not imagine MINI has the highest quality control standards as a higher end marque or maybe BMWs in general.

This is not my info but just someone who claimed they had dyno'd many, many first gen MCSs. So ONE car does not mean much.

 

Yep, and that cuts both ways...

 

fast is relative. a six second car is reasonably 'quick', a car in the fives and fours is 'fast'. below that, well, we're on to 'ludicrous speed!'

 

So the R56 MCS has a "placebo effect"?

 

There is a HUGE difference between a car running the mid-sixs to one running in the mid-high 4s. 2 seconds at 60 MPH is like more than half a football field

A 3 second car is quick.
A 2 second car is ... FUN

How about 0 - 100 - 0 in 10 seconds. Now thats fast.
Bugatti Veyron

 

hey chows4us, you don't speed and reem people out for being stupid behind the wheel. you should be asking how comfortable it is.

It's no Viper, but I have a 19% and HAI and it felt faster than mine stock... I agree with everything ficcion said, basically my thoughts on first seeing it too.

 

MINI manufacturing practices are based on BMW standards.

And BMW's quality control is not appreciably different than other marques, to be honest. The biggest difference I've seen, while working with marques including BMW, Ford, GM, and Honda, are that BMW design level engineers tend to be a bit more specific with requirements. And FWIW, projects for both BMW and MINI are done through the same group of BMW engineers. No different than how Chevrolet and Pontiac projects are done through the same group of GM engineers.

To say MINI quality control would somehow be less stringent, and would allow for that variation in horsepower, indicates to me that you really don't know how the car business works.

I would look more into Dyno variation, including temperature and barometric pressure, as well as mileage on the cars (break in)to account for variation like that.

 

how comfortable? I asked a legitimate question and now found the actual numbers printed by auto journalists.

 

Then your link doesn't speak the "truth" really.

You kinda just disproved your own post as well.

 

Gabe, so basically you are implying that with just about $1K worth of mods, your R53 '05-'06 MCS will give the stock R56 MCS a run for its money?

 

Well the MSRP for the mods on my car (the ones listed at least) is closer to $2k. So if you change that number a bit the answer would be yes. As I said on MotoringFile a few weeks ago (after driving the R56 on the track) this is the very reason I don't have a huge urge make the R56 switch. Will I have the urge when the R56 JCW comes out? I'm guessing yes.

 

Yeah, I probably didn't phrase that quite well. I never pullied my '05 so I did not have sufficient longer term tack data. However, I have driven (limited) other pullied '05's and I my first impressions would put them ahead of the R56.


However, the main point being the stock R56 is impressive. I originally thought it wasn't going to be that big of deal compared to my stock '05. Can't wait to get the R-compounds on the R56 and see what it can really do.

 

None. It was a try at internet humor. You know, the kind that never works.

The general idea was: Car "pulls" nicely at higher speeds.

 

no need to spend a $1M to go fast. Just a Viper with a supercharger or an HD2500 and BanksPower kit will allow 10's. In a pickemup.

 

Like I Said, those variation statements were made by someones whose name is not to be mentioned on NAM but posts on MINI2. He's well regarded in the MINI tuner community at the top rung. He was pretty explicit about the variations.

Perhaps MINI QC is the same as BMW but that is not all the impression. I was specifically told, for example, that BMW control quality is really not all that good compared to other higher end marques ... and I said higher end ... not Honda, Ford, or GM is simply because they do not have enough quality control points in their manufactoring process. They cant afford to and keep the prices down. Again, I didnt make this up, it was related to me by dealerships.

 

It speaks volumes... R56 on dyno shows no measureable HP difference (in fact, LESS in this reference pull)... when the dust settles, we will find that the R56 MCS is no faster than the R53 MCS it replaces, despite all the "butt dynos" telling us the contrary...

 

Of course "butt dynos" are more sensitive to torque:

R56: 241 Nm @ 4511 RPM
R53: 225 Nm @ 3518 RPM

And to RPM:

The peak HP came at 6213 RPM on the R53, and 5815 on the R56.
Heading back to 5000 RPM, the R56 is at 160 bhp. The R53 at 150 bhp.

I'd guess R53 drivers are used to trying to get into the sweet spot of the torque curve, which is 3000-5000 RPM. R56 drivers will find themselves utilizing a broader range, extended downard to about 1800 RPM. And at that level you're also looking at 60 bhp on the R56 vs around 40 on the R53.

So, it's going to feel (and drive) like a stronger car on the low end.

 

>>>Over on MINI2 one person claimed they tested 100s of First gen cars w/o mods in the variation on bhp were huge. Some were getting as much as 15 bhp less than MINIs claimed and some getting exactly what MINI claims.<<<

If you've followed the dynos and other tests there's always been a variation in the HP ratings on these cars since day 1. The variations are just a side effect of the mass production process. These will appear in any item that are put together on an assembly line, be it cars, bicycles, or blenders. Unless you physically make and assemble every part exactly the same there's always going to be some items that go together better than the next one.

 

Did the R56 lose some weight .vs. the R53 ?
Is the gearing the same ?

Both of those would affect 0-60 times also ...

 

So what I'm getting from all this is:

-Similar times in the 1/4 mile.
-Similar max power or torque on the dyno runs....but I won't have to wring the thing out to experience the HP and Torque availible?
-A couple grand on an R53 will surpass what the R56 is doing out of the box on the track. But no performance mods availible for the R56 yet to see where it'll end up.

I'll take it.

 

EXACTLY. That is exactly the point. The QC for MINI led to a wide variety ... it was somewhere between 7 - 17bhp between cars. Some ppl got the duds, some ppl got cars with more bhp than the MINI stated 168 bhp.

And my point was, that this is not true in marques that place a higher value in QC. In fact, some HP numbers are understated on purpose.

Lets suppose you have a Bench dyno and actually put your engine on it and it comes up at 161 bhp. Since MINI claims 168 would you want a refund?