The Mini Turbo will be a twin scroll turbo--theoretically it should have very little lag; it's supposed to kick in initially at 1500 RPM's. It looks very promising. But I still prefer the Supercharger; it's less common, and IMHO fits the Mini's personality better than the turbo.

 

here's a picture of the concept - supposedly quite close to the actual car.

 

Thanks. It's horrible looking! It looks like a Cougar. Pleh.

Paul

 

And S is for Supercharger! Will it be a MINI Cooper T instead?

Heh...the MINI Model T. I like it. I wonder if it will come only in black.

Paul

 

No, not true. S is not for supercharger. Sport? maybe

Like 911T, 911E, 911S S usually stands for the "sport" or faster version of a base car.

 

The meaning of "S" is like the meaning of life...Many theories, but no one really knows what it means..It doesn't stand for supercharger, and the most common things thrown out are that it stands for "Sport", or "Special", but in reality it doesn't stand for anything. It was a letter picked out soley to set it apart from the standard mini. They could have picked any letter. Q would have been nice; it's relatively underrepresented as a member of the alphabet. You kind of have to feel sorry for it.

From what I've read, the Turbo will still be called an "S". Don't know if they'll do anything else to further distuingish it.

And of course, just like the model T referred to above, you'll be able to get any color you want, as long as it's black....Wonder if it will come with a white roof?

 

Back when the original classic Mini Cooper S, there was a discussion between John Cooper and Issaganus(sp?) and they fought over "Special" or "Sport" and couldn't decide. They finally settled on "S".

IMHO I am quite dissappointed to see BMW go with a Turbo. Though BMW has a long history of Turbocharged 4 cylinders. The MINI has a 1.6 liter four cylinder, and as a 4 cylinder it has weak off the line acceleration. The Supercharger helps exactily where the engine is at its weakest. A turbo is more of a midrange to upper range boost. Where the current engine is quite strong. MIB comes alive above 4500 RPM.

The advantage of going with a turbo means that they can simply swap out turbos for different power levels. It would make it far easier to take say a MINI Cooper and put on the turbo from say a MCS or better yet put the MCS JCW kit on the MINI Cooper or base MINI one. Remember that for the rest of the world the MINI Cooper is the middle range car and that the MINI one is the base level car.

Perhaps if BMW would quit subcontracting out the engines... And pull the SMG out of the M3... Now I am dreaming.

 

I've had bunch of turbo cars in the past and present. The most noticeable lag and rush was on a 1991 MR-2 Turbo. That car had 200 hp and 200 lbs of torque that came on like gangbusters, also was really cool hearing the whistling noise of the turbo spooling up a foot behind your head. I had 3 VAG cars with the 1.8T, it's a low pressure turbo that comes on early with very little lag and creates a fairly torquey, low revving engine. My A3 has VAG's latest 2.0 FSI engine also with low pressure turbo rated at 200 hp and 207 lbs of torque. It's a very smooth transition, boost starts up low and build is especially noticeable around 4500 rpm to redline. Power/torque is very easy to mod in these engines, most chip tuners offer a stage I for around $500 that boosts its output to 250hp/300 lbs of torque.

 

I learned how to drive a manual transmission with a turbo car. I was a lowly pledge in my fraternity and a senior told me to get him some extension cords from Target, and threw me the keys of his turbo Eclipse! Needless to say, I didn't know much about either technology, and I showed up at Target 30 minutes later shaking from the fear of hitting the sweet spot when the turbo kicked in. That clutch couldn't have lasted more than a few months after that...

 

all this easy hp/torque turbo talk is making me regret my '06 order..

not really.. i'm excited for the '07 and when they get all the kinks worked out and really start to pull power out of the new engine ('09-ish?)

 

And if you had the coupe, you'd never drive the Subie.

 

Well said.
Being one of the few production cars built today, the supercharger makes it unique and 1 of the reasons I love the car. Hate to see it go.......

 

Well I understand your concern but I certainly wouldn't use the term "subcontract". BMW engineers did most of the research and design on the new family of engines. In fact you will see it in the tech on the entire "Prince" range

 

Gabe, Would you say that they subcontracted the current engine?

 

Well it's designed and engineered based primarily on BMW designs and BMW technology. The block will come from a PSA facility in France (where all "Prince" engines originate from) but the MINI version of the engine will be built and assembled in the UK.

 

I think you really feel the turbo lag in an automatic more so than a manual. I have a 2003 Audi a4 automatic and a 2003 5 speed., Major difference between the 2 when comes to lag.

 

Try driving an old turbo'd 900 or 9000. My '86 9kt had nothing until 3k-3.5k, and then it was vrooooooom. DEF. best for the ol' butt dyno. :impatient

Today's turbo lag is greatly minimized.. It's nearly nonexistent. (how much driving do you do in the low 1000s?)

 

turbo torque curve vs. supercharger torque curve.

Still being a bit of a newbie regarding torque vs. horsepower, I found this interesting article:

http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

What frustrates me a bit (although not anymore because I already ordered my '06) was not knowing what kind of torque figures the '07 turbo is going to have. They mention 176lbft(!) of torque for the 140hp variant (MC?). I'm still trying to understand that differential, and what that would mean for the 170hp MCS version of the engine.(?)

What's interesting about the MKI MCS's SC (phew, that's a lot of acronyms!) is the nice smooth build of torque over rpm, reaching peak torque and holding it pretty well to a decently high rpm, thus allowing you to shift right back into to peak-torque-land. It's nice and linear and keeps pushing you back in your seat with greater and greater acceleration. Granted, peak torque is only around 160lbft, but this is not a heavy car.

Now we get to the twin-scroll Prince Turbo. Peark torque at 1500rpm? Sounds good for the Butt-dyno off-the-line - peak acceleartion right away! But then it's flat (slightly decreasing?) until 4000rpm. Yes, it's still pulling at peak torque, but it's not continuing to pull hardER.

Obviously if the engine is a constant 176lbft @1500-4000, it's going to be quite a bit faster than the current MCS, even with the "same" horsepower. At least, that is how I understand it in my limited education on the matter. You get the best of both worlds - peak torque at a high rpm *and* peak torque at a butt-dyno-fun low rpm.

Sounds like the turbo could be a winner

But I'm still excited to drive my super-whiny SC for quite some time to come!

(for me, "WWWWEEEEEHHHHH!" sounds better than "PFFFFFSSSSHHHHHH!")

 

I welcome the turbo. If I had the money I'd buy an 08 to get the new motor w/ turbo. Has all the goodies that BMW wanted to add on their last (current) gen motor but couldn't.

I LOVE the sound of a turbo spooling as much as I like to hear "psshhhhh!" haha. I will miss the whine though.

 

The salesperson at the MINI dealer in Fife, WA said that the supercharger will still be available in 2007, that the turbo engine is just one of the options.

Considering that their waiting list is 10-12 months and any new orders are going to be 2007 models, he could just be blowing smoke. Especially since I was expressing concern at the time since I personally prefer the supercharger.

Has anyone heard about this "get it your way" turbo or supercharged options in 2007?

note: I have already ordered a 2006 MCS at a different dealer, so this is now a point of interest & curiousity at this point.

 

I believe the new design Convertible is not due until 2008, so the Tritec engine will most likely still be used on those models until then. The 2007 "S" hardtop will have the new turbo charged engine.

 

Next Generation MINI Production Timeline

 

Great article, thanks. My salesperson was claiming that the new 2007 models (e.g. even those built in 2007, 2008) will be available with supercharged engines as well as turbos. That seems contrary to what I'm reading every where else.

 

'07 MCSc = supercharged
'07 MCS = turbo

so he was sort of right...

 

I was under the impression that the MCS was gone untill late 07 or early 08.

I also thought that both the Cooper and the Cooper S would be turbocharged.