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Guys, I just wanted to say that I just finished replacing the pan seal. I used black RTV syringe, bought from the dealer. Waited a couple of days before adding oil.
Unfortunately, oil still leaks.
I suspect it was never the pan seal which was leaking. Saying that because I now suspect it is either the main seal or the "oil filter and cooler housing" seal. I see oil ABOVE the pan line and mostly in front of the engine, right below the oil filter housing. Gravity won't let oil climb a few inches, right?
So, please save yourself from wasting a lot of time and effort, do a proper diagnosis first.
I thought my oil pan was leaking because the seal area all around the pan perimeter was covered in oil. Now I think that the oil was probably there because of the length of the time I allowed the oil to leak, (where ever it was leaking from) probably a year or so.
I feel your pain brother. These cars are nothing but oil leaks.
The passenger side main seal will definitely leak onto the oil pan rim and look like a pan leak. It will also leak into the triangular plastic cover protecting the AC compressor.
Other leaks to look for include the vacuum pump, valve cover, oil cooler, and turbo oil feed and return lines.
Other leaks to look for include the vacuum pump, valve cover, oil cooler, and turbo oil feed and return lines.
My 2007 (122k miles) and my 2009 (65k miles) leaked at every one of those points plus the oil pan and main seal but not at the vacuum pump (yet). Replaced it just in case. These things leak worse than my air cooled VW's.
There is no readily apparent leak from the passenger side of the engine. The oil leak is from the driver side of the engine. Seems to be the oil cooler/pump to me. I think I want to degrease that part of the engine to definitely diagnose where this leak is coming from.
I have started to hate this Mini. It has only around 60k miles on it. Ever since I bought it (at 30k) its check engine light is always on for some or the other issue. If it was 100+k miles, I would have been ok with these issues.
I also have 3 or 4 errors in the ECU, related to PCV heater, Thermostat, charging pressure control?? and VANOS. I probably should start a new thread here, rather than hijacking this one for those problems, LoL.
Originally Posted by Lex2008
I feel your pain brother. These cars are nothing but oil leaks.
The passenger side main seal will definitely leak onto the oil pan rim and look like a pan leak. It will also leak into the triangular plastic cover protecting the AC compressor.
Other leaks to look for include the vacuum pump, valve cover, oil cooler, and turbo oil feed and return lines.
There is no readily apparent leak from the passenger side of the engine. The oil leak is from the driver side of the engine. Seems to be the oil cooler/pump to me. I think I want to degrease that part of the engine to definitely diagnose where this leak is coming from.
I have started to hate this Mini. It has only around 60k miles on it. Ever since I bought it (at 30k) its check engine light is always on for some or the other issue. If it was 100+k miles, I would have been ok with these issues.
I also have 3 or 4 errors in the ECU, related to PCV heater, Thermostat, charging pressure control?? and VANOS. I probably should start a new thread here, rather than hijacking this one for those problems, LoL.
You could simply add some flourescing dye to the engine oil. That's a super easy way to find leaks. You will need a blue light, and yellow glasses help.
The good thing is you know where to look. As for other issues, yes start a new thread and we will help you. These are half baked cars. As you can see in my sig, my engine died at 150k miles after religious maintenance. I have two Chevy gas trucks with almost 400,000 miles on them with less leaks than these crap motors. I had a twenty year old Toyota with less oil leaks.
You could simply add some florescing die to the engine oil. That's a super easy way to find leaks. You will need a blue light, and yellow glasses help.
The good thing is you know where to look. As for other issues, yes start a new thread and we will help you. These are half baked cars. As you can see in my sig, my engine died at 150k miles after religious maintenance. I have two Chevy gas trucks with almost 400,000 miles on them with less leaks than these crap motors. I had a twenty year old Toyota with less oil leaks.
Hey, adding dye is a good idea. Thanks!
I have used it for finding AC leaks.......but never thought I could add dye to engine oil also. Maybe a trip to Auto parts store is in line now :-)
This is a really useful thread as I'm seeing oil at the bottom of the pan. I have the valve cover and oil pan gaskets, but thinking I'll spend a bit of time making sure what's leaking (I'll probably install those anyway). I've done the oil filter housing gasket on my spawn's X5 and it was a PITA - guessing it isn't much more fun with the Mini given the tight quarters. I'm still under 100K miles, so a bit sad to see so much rubber as points of failure. At least the BMW one lasted 160K miles (though it crumbled completely on the bench - lol)
I wanted to add a piece of advice that it's not a good idea to use a tap/die to clean threads. They're designed to remove a lot of material, and you can really weaken threads. I'm guessing that might be what lead to the helicoil described above. I've got a Lang/Kastar thread chasing kit that is designed for correction, not cutting. They make it for a ton of companies (including Snap On), and it's pretty easy to find. I got the bigger 971 kit from Amazon for around $75, though I really wish I could have gotten a complete metric kit (no SAE) - didn't see one of those. Still a lot of coverage for the likely suspects, and less risk or removing too much material.
Just my $0.02.
Last edited by e24mpwr; Sep 4, 2021 at 07:00 PM.
Reason: typo
Check the crank oil seal, as it leaks and then flings oil onto the oil pan and makes it look like a pan leak.
Just add some fluorescing die to the oil. and save yourself from guessing. BMW doesn't know how to seal an engine. PERIOD. Dear BMW....please call Toyota to show you how to do this.
As for chasing threads with a tap...I was making sure they were clear of Loctite from dealer's attempts twice before (before I took ownership...yes dealer was unable to seal the pan, 2 times). There shouldn't be any cutting if the threads are not deformed. I clean threads and bolts all the time this way if they are buggered up. But hey thanks for parts tip. Appreciate it!!!
I only see Kit 971 which is the larger metric kit youre referring to?
Check the crank oil seal, as it leaks and then flings oil onto the oil pan and makes it look like a pan leak.
Much appreciated - will give it all a look. I have to put the car up on the QuickJack to do the rear control arms anyway.
Originally Posted by Lex2008
Just add some fluorescing die to the oil. and save yourself from guessing. BMW doesn't know how to seal an engine. PERIOD. Dear BMW....please call Toyota to show you how to do this.
I saw your suggestion earlier in the thread, and it's an interesting idea. Will definitely do that if the source isn't clear. And yeah - BMW struggles with plastic and rubber.
Originally Posted by Lex2008
As for chasing threads with a tap...I was making sure they were clear of Loctite from dealer's attempts twice before (before I took ownership...yes dealer was unable to seal the pan, 2 times). There shouldn't be any cutting if the threads are not deformed. I clean threads and bolts all the time this way if they are buggered up. But hey thanks for parts tip. Appreciate it!!!
I'm the Master of Realized Unlikelihoods, so highly risk-averse as result. I know you're an experienced guy, and I agree there *shouldn't* be any cutting, but since I've never needed to create new threads, I went with the dedicated thread-repair kit to keep myself out of trouble. (It will find me anyway :( )
Originally Posted by Lex2008
I only see Kit 971 which is the larger metric kit you're referring to?
I think Kastar is the OEM for these, and they've made a ton of kits for a variety of brands. I've heard there was a bigger (meaning a broader set of metric sizes), metric-only kit. My Google-fu isn't bad, but couldn't find it. Maybe it's only sold in Europe and/or Asia.
Much appreciated - will give it all a look. I have to put the car up on the QuickJack to do the rear control arms anyway.
I saw your suggestion earlier in the thread, and it's an interesting idea. Will definitely do that if the source isn't clear. And yeah - BMW struggles with plastic and rubber.
I'm the Master of Realized Unlikelihoods, so highly risk-averse as result. I know you're an experienced guy, and I agree there *shouldn't* be any cutting, but since I've never needed to create new threads, I went with the dedicated thread-repair kit to keep myself out of trouble. (It will find me anyway :( )
I think Kastar is the OEM for these, and they've made a ton of kits for a variety of brands. I've heard there was a bigger (meaning a broader set of metric sizes), metric-only kit. My Google-fu isn't bad, but couldn't find it. Maybe it's only sold in Europe and/or Asia.
I appreciate the tool tip. I know some guys just cut a slot in a bolt and use that to chase threads. Seems fine but ya gotta have an extra bolt handy.
I'm def gonna buy the kit you mention. I have a nice set of thread cleaning files while I've used many times. (
Anyone that spends any significant amount of time working on cars is going to get their a$$ kicked by broken bolts, stripped threads, seized bolts...etc. 100% inevitable. I remember Car and Driver reviewed the newest gen Mini and the mechanics had to repair the same subframe multiple times and eventually the bolt snapped off in the body...OOOOOOPS. Let me guess....no torque wrench. Imagine drilling that massive bolt out. One high strength insert likely cost $200. Never mind how much time they wasted. HOURS.
I had a long conversation with the dept. manager at Mini of Alexandria and he laughed at how incapable BMW is of sealing its motors long-term. Why BMW why?
Anyone that spends any significant amount of time working on cars is going to get their a$$ kicked by broken bolts, stripped threads, seized bolts...etc. 100% inevitable. I remember Car and Driver reviewed the newest gen Mini and the mechanics had to repair the same subframe multiple times and eventually the bolt snapped off in the body...OOOOOOPS. Let me guess....no torque wrench. Imagine drilling that massive bolt out. One Insert likely cost $200. Never mind how much time they wasted. HOURS.
Yikes. As I said, I'm risk-averse. I'm a huge believer in my torque wrenches and careful to double-check stuff (and then when I took the post-suspension Mini to get an alignment I threw my buddies there extra $$ to check them all for proper torque/etc. again). I'm never on a deadline for any of this stuff, so I take my time and try to do it as correctly as I'm capable of (and still make mistakes, but it's usually something silly like swapping sides on the steering end-links
)
My worst experience on a bolt was stripping the ABS sensor bolt on my old BMW. I know a couple more tricks now I wish I'd known then (and have far better tools, too), but I was on my third set of EasyOut-type things before drilling out most of the bolt finally worked. I cussed a lot during that whole episode...
Originally Posted by Lex2008
I had a long conversation with the dept. manager at Mini of Alexandria and he laughed at how incapable BMW is of sealing its motors long-term. Why BMW why?
I've got a buddy who is a BMW Master Tech and spent some time at the nearby Mini dealership as well. When I got it, he said I'd hate working on my Mini. I wouldn't go as far as hate, but it is a bit of an origami car. My spawn's X5 is more like Legos for the most part, though the CCV and the oil filter housing gasket weren't exactly fun...
Anyway, I am disappointed there are so many things that will leak oil on these things. My general approach is to go ahead and do everything so I won't have to worry about which one is next. The gaskets are cheap, and my time is free. (well, sorta...)
Yikes. As I said, I'm risk-averse. I'm a huge believer in my torque wrenches and careful to double-check stuff (and then when I took the post-suspension Mini to get an alignment I threw my buddies there extra $$ to check them all for proper torque/etc. again). I'm never on a deadline for any of this stuff, so I take my time and try to do it as correctly as I'm capable of (and still make mistakes, but it's usually something silly like swapping sides on the steering end-links
)
My worst experience on a bolt was stripping the ABS sensor bolt on my old BMW. I know a couple more tricks now I wish I'd known then (and have far better tools, too), but I was on my third set of EasyOut-type things before drilling out most of the bolt finally worked. I cussed a lot during that whole episode...
I've got a buddy who is a BMW Master Tech and spent some time at the nearby Mini dealership as well. When I got it, he said I'd hate working on my Mini. I wouldn't go as far as hate, but it is a bit of an origami car. My spawn's X5 is more like Legos for the most part, though the CCV and the oil filter housing gasket weren't exactly fun...
Anyway, I am disappointed there are so many things that will leak oil on these things. My general approach is to go ahead and do everything so I won't have to worry about which one is next. The gaskets are cheap, and my time is free. (well, sorta...)
ABS sensors...who needs them.
Ya man change all those seals at once...but don't touch the crankcase seal unless you now for sure its leaking. The FelPro version comes with a plastic guide but its still easy to put it in unevenly.
In preparation for the oil pan gasket, I got this cute little guy:
But re-reading this thread, I was left with a question: Gasket, liquid sealant or both?
This is what I ordered:
I figured I'd replace the bolts - seems like that was specified in the Bentley, and takes them out of the equation for any issues - but seems like other (non-Mini/BMW) videos I've watched about oil pan gaskets used both sealant and a gasket. Is that asking for trouble or belt and suspenders?
I've got the updated Bentley - need to go back and look at what it says too, but interested in thoughts.
(My car is a R55 Justa N12 with 93K if I didn't mention that before)
In preparation for the oil pan gasket, I got this cute little guy:
But re-reading this thread, I was left with a question: Gasket, liquid sealant or both?
This is what I ordered:
I figured I'd replace the bolts - seems like that was specified in the Bentley, and takes them out of the equation for any issues - but seems like other (non-Mini/BMW) videos I've watched about oil pan gaskets used both sealant and a gasket. Is that asking for trouble or belt and suspenders?
I've got the updated Bentley - need to go back and look at what it says too, but interested in thoughts.
(My car is a R55 Justa N12 with 93K if I didn't mention that before)
For anyone stumbling across this old thread, Mini had a service bulletin years ago saying to skip the gasket entirely. Just apply loctite 5970. That being said, that stuff can be annoying to put hands on and it's basically just black permatex gasket maker/RTV sealant. So to re-cap: no paper/metal gasket of any kind. Just scrape the pan and block mating surface with something that won't scratch (plastic razor blades from Amazon have served me well) and throw a bead of RTV (keep it inboard of the bolt holes) on the oil pan. That's it.
Source: I have put 300k miles on my R56 justa N12 and another 180k on my R60 S All4 N18 with zero leaks.
On the topic of leaks, don't forget to scrape and put a bit of that same RTV sealant on the right and left edges of the head where it mates with the valve cover gasket whenever you have the valve cover off. And never re-use valve cover gaskets or buy cheap knock off valve covers. Not worth the headache to save a few bucks. You'll spend those saved bucks when you have to redo the work a month later.
For anyone stumbling across this old thread, Mini had a service bulletin years ago saying to skip the gasket entirely. Just apply loctite 5970. That being said, that stuff can be annoying to put hands on and it's basically just black permatex gasket maker/RTV sealant. So to re-cap: no paper/metal gasket of any kind. Just scrape the pan and block mating surface with something that won't scratch (plastic razor blades from Amazon have served me well) and throw a bead of RTV (keep it inboard of the bolt holes) on the oil pan. That's it.
Source: I have put 300k miles on my R56 justa N12 and another 180k on my R60 S All4 N18 with zero leaks.
On the topic of leaks, don't forget to scrape and put a bit of that same RTV sealant on the right and left edges of the head where it mates with the valve cover gasket whenever you have the valve cover off. And never re-use valve cover gaskets or buy cheap knock off valve covers. Not worth the headache to save a few bucks. You'll spend those saved bucks when you have to redo the work a month later.
Actually, I still haven't gotten around to this job (replaced by the time spent because my son obliterated the front right suspension on the family Mazda, so I wound up replacing nearly everything up front and the rear shocks to match the Koni's I put on the front), so I appreciate the clear answer.
Ahh the fun of repairing suspension. Finally did all 4 corners on my R56 at 250k miles and decided it was worth it to buy a proper suspension press for the shop. Now I'm working on my R60 that spent a winter in WV with the previous owner and this is my current build list for next weekend:
✔️= already completed last weekend
Engine:
Lower engine mount bushings.
Hood catches.
Hood release cable.
✔️Vanos adjuster units.
✔️Ignition coils.
Oil pan bolts (stainless ARP).
Oil pump solenoid.
Oil pump bolts.
Oil pump chain.
Oil pump drive cog.
Oil pump crank cog.
✔️All coolant hoses.
✔️Coolant expansion tank.
Primary cooling fan.
✔️Front Main Seal.
Transfer box lock ring and plug seal.
✔️All Vacuum lines.
✔️Coolant turbo feed lines.
✔️Braided NM Oil feed lines.
✔️Vacuum pump.
✔️Vacuum tank.
✔️Vacuum regulator.
✔️Vacuum solenoid.
✔️Boost regulator.
✔️Engine mount.
✔️Engine mount adapter.
✔️Engine mount bracket upper.
✔️Timing chain
✔️Timing chain guides
✔️Vanos solenoids
✔️Oil cooler
✔️Oil filter housing
✔️Downpipe Heat shields
✔️Upstream o2 sensor
✔️Downstream o2 sensor
✔️Belt tensioner
✔️Friction wheel assembly
✔️Valve cover
✔️Spark plugs
✔️Engine ground strap
✔️Hot side charge cooler line
✔️Cold side charge cooler line
✔️Thermostat with housing
✔️Coolant hard pipe
✔️Water pump
✔️Dip stick tube
✔️Dip stick
✔️Clutch hard line
✔️Clutch master cylinder
✔️Clutch slave cylinder
✔️Turbo kit
Suspension:
Left front lower control arm
Right front lower control arm
Both front control arm bushings PowerFlex
Both control arm bushing mounts
Front sway bar bushings
Strut tower cross bar
Front ball joints
Front struts
Rear struts
Rear end:
✔️Rebuild new rear axles
Rear Differential full service
Rear diff bushings
Rear subframe diff/suspension carrier
Axle back borla exhaust
Rear Exhaust hangers
Front exhaust hangers
V-band clamps
Guibo
Both rear wheel hubs
Rear hub bolts
Lighting:
LED Rally lights
Rally Grille
✔️Headlight LED upgrade
✔️Fog light LED upgrade
✔️Daytime running light LED
trailer wiring
✔️Headlight mounting tabs
✔️Rally light wiring harness
Tail light circuit panels
Body and interior:
Window trim strip
Door emblems
Trunk emblems
Rear center seatbelt
✔️Swap rear captain seats for bench seats
Headliner re-mold
Brake duct pipes
Plasti-dipping the brake duct inlets to match pin striping and grill lipstick trim
Jack Pads
Front wiper blades
Rear wiper blade
✔️M7 hitch mount
✔️MINI OEM rear bumper bike rack
✔️MINI OEM roof rack cross bars
✔️MINI OEM roof box
✔️New set of tires
✔️New EBC slotted rotors and pads all round
You don't need new bolts but you should clean the bolts and chase the threads then use medium loctite thread locker. Use RTV because you have a steel pan against an aluminum block so they don't expand and contract at the same rate.
You don't need new bolts but you should clean the bolts and chase the threads then use medium loctite thread locker. Use RTV because you have a steel pan against an aluminum block so they don't expand and contract at the same rate.
Totally agree. Replacing mine because the heads are rusted. Ironically, a leaky engine could have prevented this, but like I said above, no paper gasket means no leaks. But the bigger reason is that on the N18 with the All4 system, it's nearly impossible to get one specific bolt out without removing the entire transfer case. You can touch the bolt but there is no clearance to get a socket or wrench in there. I did get it after 2hrs off swearing at it, but I'm never putting that hex head back in. Instead, we are going with some Allen head stainless ARP bolts so I can get a ball head Allen sockets in there with no clearance issues.
