I don't know if its been said(And TBH, I couldn't be bothered to read and see), but the '11 S vs JCW, I'd choose the S. Because of the difference in the Valvetronic system. S(Variable timing and lift) vs JCW (variable timing not lift, IIRC). I'd think with pro-tuning involved that could make a world of difference in the long run.

 

If I understand correcly what I've read, the 2011 S has a different "locked" ECU that at this time , at least, can't be retuned with a Dimsport or AccessPort. On Alta's site they only list the AP for the MCS up to 2010, but it is available for the 2011 JCW. I read in an earlier post somewhere, from Jan at RMW, that the ECU for a 2011 MCS needed to have some hard wiring done to its ECU before it could be flash tuned, if I remember right.

 

I'm sure you're correct about the locked ECUs, this is pretty common with newer VWs. It's hilarious because the VW ECUs are protected by special 1 use tamper resistant fasteners which the dealers stock and will sell to you. I don't know anything about the '11 MINIs though.

 

That's my understanding as well but it's only a matter of time before the aftermarket catches up and finds a solution.

 

I bought mine off the lot too for $25,750. The only JCW they had would have been around 30-31k. So in my case, there was a pretty big diff. I'm not trying to debate it, was just sharing my reasons for not buying a JCW. I wouldn't pay that much for one, thats all. I'm in the minority I'm sure, not trying to offend anyone.

 

There is no way in hell I'd pay that much for a JCW new on the lot. It's just not worth it IMO.

I'm a huge MINI fan but the price of a NEW JCW is a bit crazy.

Todd

 

That means the difference is ~$5k there. Add in at the minimum an exhaust +labor, brake kit + labor, AccessPort and thats already close to $4k. And you still don't have the same turbo and some other things. So I still don't see how people are saying they can pretty much get the same car for so much cheaper. And even if you mod it up and get everything added in somehow for the difference in price, you still dont' have a warranty.

 

Well, I've never said that personally, and I agree with you 100%. Comparing a JCW factory-stock to a modded "S" is dumb IMHO. Its just an apples and oranges debate.

As for me, I have no intention of modifying mine to any extent (I want the warranty). For the raw difference in price (5k~ - ish), I actually think the JCW is a good value overall from that angle, if you're willing to pay for it. I just personally don't think the entire car is worth the money in the first place is all. The nearly 26 I paid for my "S" was the max I felt like I could justify parting with for a car this small and of relatively limited use, etc. I get over 30 grand, and my eyes start wandering, thats all.

 

If you have the wallet and love the car do it! JCW does give you a lot for the 6k difference, in terms of modding it the JCW engine can handle more power than an S, but at 30k there are a lot of cars out there that are worth to take a look at

 

The 2011s have been out for seven months now, I got mine (JCW) on Sept. 18, there is still no after market tune available for the MCS, as far as I know. My AccessPort was shipped last friday, so I should get it tomorrow or Tuesday and on Thursday I'm getting coilovers.

 

Just be patient. 2011 S vs. JCW is a no-brainer, go with the S.

 

I hate to say it but I think everyone with a 2011 and on MCS is screwed when it comes to getting a "Flash Tune" with an AccessPort or Dimsport flash tuner. I posted this here back on 1/9/11.

Back in January I may (or may not) have spoken with someone intimately familiar with the BMW/MINI ECU for 2011. He may (or may not) have told me that the new computer is "locked" somehow and that it cannot be "Flash Tuned" the way the 2007-10 ECU's can be. This has been confirmed by several "Tuners" over the last several months. They maybe able to modify the ECU to enable a "Tune" but I believe it requires the removal of the ECU from the car and making some "hardwire" changes to the circuits. None of this is reversible and would be fully detectable by the Dealer's Diagnostic Computer. This would void any engine warranty coverage.

I may (or may not) have also been told that BMW is considering a requirement that all MINI Dealers refuse to perform any work on a car that has been so modified unless the ECU is replaced with an new ECU. I don't know how far this has gone but it does sound plausible.

I guess BMW/MINI is hot happy with all the "Tune related" engine warranty claims.

I asked about the JCW Tune available to purchasers of the JCW Upgrade Kit and I was told that there are several "tunes" in the BMW/MINI system that can be activated but that they are somehow pre-authorized in the system. I didn't completely understand this but this also seemed plausible.

That's it, if you want to get a 2011 and you want to be able to load up a "Flash Tune" I think you need to get a JCW!

Cheers

 

You are right about the ECU having to be physically cracked open currently. This is also the case for VAG products, but that community has found workarounds. Regardless, I think right now I'd be hesitant to do this sort of mod to my own car. I also imagine MINI won't work on a car they know has a tune.

I think at the dealer level, they would check the ecu physically to see if there is any tampering to any seals or tamper resistant fasteners, but I doubt they could find out much beyond that without downloading and sending the ECU data to MINI's engineers. I'm sure they would do this with some sort of critical failure, but not routine stuff.

 

I never said anything about replacing everyone's ECU! Where do you read that?

I said it was my understanding that BMW/MINI has been considering this course of action when they discover a modified ECU, not all ECU's!! BTW, the car's owner would be required to pay for the replacement or he could take his car elswhere for repairs.
It was also my understanding that every time a MINI or BMW is brought to the Dealer for service the car is connected to their Diagnostic Computer which runs a full system check on the car and downloads that information, including diagnostic codes, to the technician, the Dealership's service log, and sends it to BMW/MINI. I'm fairly certain this is the case.

 

Glad to see djdraddy is banned....

Velourfog...not sure why he was so on your case...unlike what he says, a tune will not automatically void your warranty. I can tell you from first hand experience, that he was off in nearly every point he was trying to make. Even with the JCW turbo on my car, I gaurentee no one at the dealer would ever know by looking at it that its different than stock, I've never had a warranty issue (although I'm now out of warranty @ 52k, so it's a moot point). But hell I told them all about it anyway when I did it, they were just as excited to see the results as I was.

My car is exactly unique to me, done exactly how I wanted it, more power than I'd have with a JCW...and contrary to what he says was nowhere near the "$12k" to make it into a JCW....lol. And it was still under warranty when I was in the warranty period.

 

I don't know why either! My last post I was trying to agree with him! These forums are meant for conversation and opinions, anything any of us say is meant to be a guide and not fact necessarily and I don't understand why some people don't understand that. I make errors in my posts when reading too quickly or jumping to conclusions, but no hard feelings taken or meant!

Completely agree that a tune being present doesn't automatically void a warranty.

Anyways, this thread may apply to me now more than I thought it would have. My car may end up being a lemon. It was in the shop for two weeks last month and approaching two weeks this month in addition to all the misc events in the last 2 years of ownership. If MINIUSA will do a trade assist for me, I may be in the market for a new 2011 S or JCW!

 

Haha in your case get a JCW, you don't want an un-moddable '11 S

 

I owned a 2010 S and traded for a 2011 JCW. The cars are a vastly different.
So much so it even surprised me. JCW rides way better on the 17's than the S did on 16's. Night and day different. Some has to do with improvements in the 11 but the total package is more than the sum of a few add-on parts.
It 1 + 1 = 3. I had Jan load a tune and the car just rocks. Just added light weight rims and a set of sticky track rubber to the mix. Oh and some racing brakes to keep up with the new sticky rubber. I have well over 35k into the MINI and sometimes I think I am nuts. But when I load all my race gear up in the MINI and head for the track it is worh every penny.

Next week I signed up late and am in the beginner group on Thursday at Thunder Hill. Should be fun have the MINI out front playing rabbit for a bunch of Ferrari's. Newbies at that should be fun. If they don't play well I will have lots of open track in front until we play lap the Ferrari's. Very small groups so it should be wide open.

This is also my commuter car and when I have to run to the airport or the office it is all the more fun. The 660 miles is a dream in the MINI too. Last trip i did the whole run never getting out of the car after 2 full days at the track. Got 2 MPG better with the Jan tune also running harder. Great versital commuter that doubles as a race car. If I need any more top end I will break out the Maserati. Otherwise the MINI can hand with about anything including exotics as long as your through a few corners in and it is not a drag race.

 

I'm going to have to jump in and say that not being caught to stay under warranty is different than completely staying in warranty though. There's lots of mods in the old days that I made sure I pulled off before asking for warranty work cause some dealers were really **** about mods.

Its actually very highly dependent on your dealer. Back in the honda world ages ago for me, there were some dealers who were very agreeable to mods, and you kept yuor warranty on pretty much everything except for the part you modded. And then there were some who insisted that almost everything voided the warranty, or everything was because you must have abused the car. One tried to tell me everything involving brakes or rattles in the car, or little thigns going wrong weren't covered cause of the aftermarket brake pads I had causing extra wear, tear, heat to braking system and extra jolting to the chassis cause they bite harder than stock pads.

So as always, talk to your dealer and you can kinda see how they are about mods. They usually dont' hide their feelings if they are going to be a pain in the butt abuot mods.

It doesn't automatically void it, but I wouldnt' tell the dealer about it if I retuned my ECU. Every dealer has told me for years that if I reprogrammed the ECU, or installed something inline with the ECU (ie Apexi AFC), the warranty is void. But again...if they dont' know about it, then its stock and always been stock!

 

I hate you guys. This is exactly the debate that I've had with myself the last 2 months.

Of note there's two used S 2008 model convertibles for sale with automatics for $27,xxx. The same dealer has a used JCW convertible 2009 for 29,XXX. Mileage on the cars are roughly equivalent. After 2 or 3 years the $6000 extra for the JCW is only worth about $2500. Ouch.

 

I have a pw 2007 S. See my gallery. That car has, what, 176 hp? Torque figure near that. The 2011 S has what 196? hp and a similar torque jump, plus they electronically engineered the torque steer pretty much OUT of it. Back in 2007, those 2011 S figures pretty much covered the JCW car in 2007. Unless you're going to the track or just have a bunch of money to throw around, I'd go with an S.
Somebody made a comment about their JCW getting "all the attention". You bought a JCW Mini Cooper to get attention?? That's silly. Cars that get ATTENTION get TICKETS. See my gallery. TOO MUCH ATTENTION. I was out yesterday...stopped at numerous places, PESTERED everywhere I went. It gets VERY OLD. Great if you want to meet women, though.
Anyhow, save your money and buy a 2011 S. It has everything you need to lose your driver's license times over.

 

Not to sound like a jack@ss, but I don't really think the JCW is worth the money. If I was buying a new MINI today (I bought my current one used), I'd probably get a justa - I mean power is great and all, but it's still FWD. The MINI is for the twisties, and extra power doesn't really matter too much there. The prices that you start to pay for the JCW just don't seem to me to be worth it - at that point you may as well start looking at the 1-series for the RWD, which can be way more fun.
Just my 2 cents.

tl;dr - I'd go with the S instead of the JCW.

 

Using that same logic, there's no reason even for an S. Could get a justa and save even more money and still be good in the twisties.

 

What the heck, buy the most Mini you can for the price you are comfortable with. In my case it was the S. I paid cash, no payment. believe, if I'd had the money I'd bought a JCW. If my budget would have only gotten me a Just a, that would have been fine and i would be loving it.

 

I have extensive drive time on every 2nd gen MINI (my car has been at the dealer once or twice... maybe more) including R55 Justa and S. R56 Justa, S and JCW. R57 Justa and S. I have also driven the R60 Countryman All4 S.

I am very happy I went with the JCW.

Different people have different expectations of cars and different size pocketbooks. You go with what you like and what you can afford at the time.

If I had the money (well I have the money, it goes to my mortgage, wife and kids) I would be driving a BMW 650i convertible or a M3 or something better. I would not be driving a MINI if I could have a much nicer, faster car.

I bought the JCW becuase that was what I liked and could afford at the time.