The response the OP is talking about has nothing to do with engine power, the interval of time between the action of the pedal and the response of the throttle body(DBW) is the relative issue.

 

yes i know still so the S has a faster throttle response than a regular cooper

 

By the way the other cars sitting at my house are a 2004 Z8, 1996 993 turbo, 1997 993 carrera S, 1960 porsche super 90 roadster, 1965 porsche 356 sc, 1967 911s, and a 2010 s4. I know a thing or 2 about throttle response. The MCS doe not have terrible throttle response

 

MCS does not spin up quickly out of boost, sorry but the 1.6 is just a 1.6 with out boost.



Doesnt matter how many cars you have had or how much money you have... the engine does not spin up fast.(and my mcs is tuned)

No factory turbo car that i can think of that is of small displacement other than wankle engines spin up fast and give the "flick of the needle" that is being discussed.

 

I think it's just you with regard to the throttle response topic.

 

I've driven 2 S models in the past three months (2008 Cooper S manual, 2010 Clubman S auto.) and guess what, the throttle was laggy on both of them too. I can't say for sure it's an identical lag, but none of them have a quick, responsive feel. Yes the sport button helped but it still doesn't compare to a cabled throttle. I decided against buying the S, even after driving it, because faster straight line performance wasn't worth the trade off in questionable reliability, or losing the low mileage I have on my '06 to trade for an S. Running the S cars through their paces on some favorite twisties yielded no better results than I achieve in my Cooper, and frankly, I am rarely passed on the highway either. You Interstate drivers with the long straight lines down south may have varying experiences there.


Does the S offer a lot that the Cooper doesn't come equipped with? Of course. Is it faster in a straight line? Without a doubt. It's a great car, and for the right price and a warranty, with low miles, I'd consider trading in my Cooper. But saying "You should have bought an S" to solve a problem that will cost a few hundred bucks to fix with a SprintBooster is ridiculous if the OP is otherwise happy with his car.

Glad you like your S, but everyone has different needs and driving styles and spending that few thousand extra isn't a worthwhile investment for some.

 

While i agree with you, the problem isnt actually the DWB system(with DWB you can actually make the ratio between pedal and throttle plate so small that 10% of the pedal would be fully open throttle(Figuratively speaking). This action that i mentioned before is what the sprint booster does(not to the extreme that i brought up).

Its the 1.6 turbo compared to the 1.6 SC, The 1.6 turbo has nothing behind it until boost.


BTW what rpms does boost begin to build on the sc? I cant remember the last time i drove one, but i do remember it was fairly instant

 

I installed the Sprint Booster this AM, set it to the "red" (max) setting and went for a brief drive. I have to say that my initial impression is that it completely addresses the problem I posted about. I am now able to seemlessly heel and toe downshift at relatively low revs. No having to pause to complete a downshift while holding the throttle open or kick the throttle more than once to get the revs up to match the next lower gear.

It remains to be seen if the greater throttle response proves to be a problem in other aspects of normal driving.

BTW, now I am really interested to know if the Sprint Booster works as well as this with a turbo car. If it weren't for the problems with carbon build-up in the direct injected motors, I would actually consider an "S", particularly now that I know that a full Justa suspension with Bilsteins (as on my car now) can be fitted to an "S".

As others have stated, it's an expensive solution to a problem that the car should not have, but may be the only good option.

BTW, another benefit is not having to use "Sport" mode. I do not like the artificial additional heaviness it adds to the steering.

DOC

 

Doc, thanks for the update.. I'm glad it has so far solved the problem for you. Since that's my main complaint with the driveability of the car, I'm glad there is a fix out there. Please post up when you've had a chance to use it a little more and let me know how it works out in "normal" driving.

Thanks
Dan

 

"I thought there was something "wrong" with my car when it stumbled coming off idle, but I am told "they are all like that"."

Mine has never stumbled for anyone who has driven it, and I only use sport mode when autocrossing.

 

I have had the SB in my "justa" for over a year now and it works as advertised, IMHO. I drive in race mode with sport button on all the time. Add a NM Torque Arm Bushing, DDM CAI and I believe that is the "justa tune".

Jim

 

IMHO compression or engine have very little to do with the throttle response on my S. When I press the pedal I am talking to a computer. It does what it is programmed to do at a rate it is programed to do it at.

gary

 

Exactly.......

 

Based on?

All else being equal, lower compression + having an impeller in your exhaust piping is going to make throttle response slower. MINI could have shortened the programmed delay for the MCS compared to the MC to make up any difference, but without any specific technical knowledge of that or any empirical testing, it's fairly reasonable to assume that lower compression and turbocharging will lead to slower throttle response.

 

10.5 is not low compression and there are many performance vehicles on the road and on the track with "an impeller in the exhaust piping". Previously in this thread it was stated that the S and non-S have similar response times. No impellers in that exhaust piping. Perhaps the valve timing or twin scroll is flawed, but I choose programming. BMW may or may not have a reason for this...I don't know.

gary

 

I didn't say "low compression", I said "lower compression" as compared to the Cooper. Also, the Cooper doesn't have an impeller in the exhaust but the MCS does. For those 2 reasons, it's reasonable to assume that the Cooper S probably doesn't have *better* throttle response than the MC... Unless there is information from MINI or empirical data that says otherwise. Yes, programming is a big part of the slow throttle response, I said that a long time ago.

 

There is so little difference between a turbo and a N/A cars throttle response nowadays to not even be worth the discussion. Especially with the throttle-by-wire we have. We are not talking about 70's or 80's technology now.

 

Further street driving in "race" (???) mode has proven to be OK. It is slightly more fierce than I would pick for starting off gently from rest, but not enough to warrant changing modes back and forth while driving.

I am waiting for a response from the seller as to why the SB turns off occasionally during operation. Has the Justa owner with an SB who posted experienced this?

I particularly like being able to avoid the artificially stiff steering that you get with "Sport" mode.

Anyone know if turning off the DSC also kills the traction control? (If so, is there a mod that allows keepng traction control on while DSC is off?)

Thanks,

DOC

 

I don't know if I'm the justa owner you're talking about ( I returned my Sprint Booster) but I never had any problems with it spontaneously turning itself off during the 2 wks I used it. All this discussion has me wondering if I should give it another try.

 

I was directing that to Jbewley.

DOC

 

I'm surprised to see so many people complaining about the throttle response. I haven't driven a regular cooper but I think my 09 MCS is pretty good really. I've owned many sports cars including a Porsche GT3 with a lightweight flywheel which was an extremely quick revving car and I think the MCS is great to heel toe. Better in fact than some of my old Porsches.

 

H,

The original issue has been lost. It had to do with off-idle throttle response. If you are above 3000 rpm, there is no issue. The SB has solved my problem.

DOC

 

DOC4444- Thanks for posting your experience with SB - I've been considering it. I find the drive by wire throttle mapping inappropriate for a car that intended to be driven enthusiastically. At least they spaced the pedals so we can heel and toe. One other relatively minor issue that I have is that the back pressure on the throttle pedal is very very light (too easy to push), which aggravates the drive by wire problem for me.

 

Hello Doc,

Glad to hear that the SB fixed the issue you were having. I'm annoyed about the same thing - it takes almost exactly a full second for the car to rev after pressing the gas from idle. I know technology has been advanced enough since the mid-90's to not have a full 1000ms of lag between point a and point b

Regarding that, has the SB completely eliminated that dead spot?

 

toxictv,

I would say that the SB has almost completely eliminated the problem. An extreme example would be approaching a second gear corner in 5th @ 45 MPH (under 2000 rpm), steady state. Making a single, 5th to 2nd double clutch downshift with a quick kick to the throttle while braking will work with the SB in "race" (red light). Under these most challenging conditions, there is the slightest delay until 2000 rpm is reached. However, it does not require holding the throttle open while waiting to complete the gearchange. Downshifts executed above 2000 rpm yield instant throttle response.

DOC