When I can option a Toyota Yaris with a dual-clutch transmission instead of a manual, then I will refer to it as an automatic. For now, "traditional" (torque converter) automatics are significantly different from dual-clutch transmissions (and other "automated manual" transmissions) to warrant distinguishing it by name.

 

depending on how good you can bargain the price of pdk is under $3k

 

pdk operates like an auto trans--meaning you can put it in "D" and drive off without changing the gears manually?

"a rose by any other name is still a rose"?

 

I'm just saying that when dual-clutch transmissions are common enough that they replace conventional transmissions on "everyday" cars, then I'll use the blanket term "automatic" to refer to them. There's a big difference between conventional automatics and a dual clutch transmission.

You don't walk into an Audi dealer and ask for an "automatic", because they'll give you a traditional automatic. Even though dual-clutch transmissions are automatic per se, you have to ask for a DSG/dual-clutch, because there is a distinction. You go ahead and ask for an "automatic" A4--until DSG becomes common enough, I'm going to distinguish it by name.

 

Go to a VW dealer and order an automatic. See what you get.

 

if i go to a new tesla dealership and order a car it is still called a car even if it has no internal combustion engine sorry couldn't resist this comment

 

But is it's transmission auto or manual?

(Hint it has only one gear, and it can't change.)

 

A dual clutch transmission is called (classified as) a sequential (or sequential Manual) while it is an Automatic transmission, it is also a Manual transmission, in the very general sense of the definitions, but it is actually neither.

 

i will consede to this statement never to comment again on this thread--i will now cut my fingers off

 

Well, technically no, because it does not shift itself, you still have to row the gears, it's just up and down, instead of the traditional H pattern.

 

Okay, since I brought this on myself, let me clarify. You can choose two things: 1) how the transmission bridges power from the engine to the driveshaft, either via a torque converter or a clutch 2) how you select gears in your transmission, either all by yourself or by having the transmission (or related software & hydraulics) do it for you.

In the good old days, torque converter transmissions were known as automatics, transmission with clutches were called manuals. It was easy. Now the terminology is less precise, for technology has been on the march. We currently have, often in the same car, 1) automatic automatics 2) manual automatics 3) manual manuals 4) automatic manuals.

I say if there's a clutch, it's a manual, but then I'm really old. And I loved SMG.

 

I doubt that Danica Patrick would find it funny and would ask you who the girl was after she left you sniffing her exhaust no matter what transmission she had in her car.

Automatics are for girls...

 

I remember that Volkswagen had a "clutchless stick shift" back in the 60's and 70's - what kind of transmission was that? Was it a torque-converter tranny like an automatic, but you selected the gears manually, or was it more like a regular manual transmission except the clutch engagement/disengagement was handled automatically when you moved the shift lever?

 

I believe it's a clutchless manual like the one used in the Smart ForTwo. The newer ones can run in "automatic" mode too, but tend to be awefully jerky. It's seen as a feature on a decent number of European subcompact "city cars"--I drove a Fiat with a clutchless manual once. Still uses a clutch, it's just robotically actuated. However, many also have a torque converter, to smooth out shifts (the computer is actually fairly crude at shifting in most applicatoins of this) and to allow the car to idle in gear.

 

Automated manual? Sounds like an automatic to me. If you can put it in Drive and go about motoring without being forced to switch gears yourself, it is an automatic in my book. Torque converter or not, it is an automatic with truly manual capabilities. A manual is just that... a transmission that MUST be manually shifted. I guess calling it an automatic might take the masculinity away, but heck, it is an awesome technology.

 

I have a 1972 Charger with the Torqueflite 727 automatic transmission. But, it's been fitted with a manual valve body so that it can no longer automatically change gears. Is it a "manual" transmission now?

It's been said before, but the problem is that there are so many different types of transmissions available now that the terms "automatic" and "manual" are no longer as descriptive as they once were.

In addition to telling you how the gears were selected, the terms "manual" and "automatic" used to also tell you about how power was transferred - either via a flywheel/clutch arrangement or via a torque converter & friction bands.

I can't think of a good naming convention to use now, because there are no one-word terms that describe modern transmissions as completely as "manual" and "automatic" used to describe traditional transmissions. We can either use brand names like "Tiptronic", or we're stuck with balky phrases like "sequential manual gearbox with automatic gear-selection capability".

 

call it what you like, but the bottom line is, that for the "average person" an auto transmission has no clutch.
weather you shift it manually or not, its still an auto trans.
because at some time or other, you can put it in a single gear selection, and sip your latte going down the road

 

Trick question. It has no transmission. Electric motor: comes to a full stop at intersections. Differential only.

 

When you shift, or the automatic transmission shifts, there is always a drop in RPMs from a lower to higher gear ratio. That's what transmissions do. You may notice a difference in RPMs between each shift point. I've got a Cooper S and the rev drops from 1st to 2nd is about 750RPM, 2nd to 3rd, about 500, 3rd to 4th about 500, 4th to 5th about 250 and 5th to 6th about 100. I may be a little off on these as I haven't driven the car for a couple of weeks. I can't imagine you didn't notice a drop in revs when you drove the 335i or the lexus. I have a 335i coupe with automatic paddle shift and there is always a drop in revs when upshifting. Now if you are down shifting the effect is just the opposite.

 

I think the poster means that he/she hits the paddle shifter, and the RPMs continue rising for another few hundred RPM before the transmission performs the shift. I.E., there's a delay in execution after the input.

The drop in RPMs between gears is relative to the RPM you shift out of. First to second is about 750 RPM when you shift out at about 2500 RPM, but if you take it higher, the drop is easily 1500 RPM.

 

The old (late 1960's vintage) VW "auto" transmission was called the "automatic stick-shift" and it had both a torque converter and an electrically operated friction clutch. The car had no clutch pedal, instead the car sensed when you moved the shifter, which activated a solenoid that disengaged the clutch. Then you moved the gear lever into the gear you wanted, exactly like the manual transmission. Once the lever reached the end of the gear detent, the clutch solenoid de-energized and engaged the clutch. The torque converter was only there to handle coming to a stop and re-starting again. Overall, this was a terrible transmission and was never popular. I still have a maintenance manual for these cars and looking at the design of the "auto stick" tranny, I'm amazed VW let them leave the factory.

In F1 race cars there are "automatic manual" transmissions. They use friction clutches like a manual tranny, but both the clutch and gear change sequences are done by the computer. However, by regulation, the computer cannot initiate the gear shift sequence. That means these are manual transmissions because they can't shift until told to by the driver, but the actual shifting of gears is done automatically by the car.

 

The more I think about it, I still don't know how to classify the transmission in my Charger. It has a regular automatic transmission, but it's been modified with a reverse manual valve body, so the shift pattern goes P-R-N-1-2-3, and the transmission won't initiate *any* shifts on its own. I guess "mongrel" is as good as anything.

 

Aha, I didn't think about that because it seems very odd that the revs continue to rise between shifts up. Sounds like something is amiss. And I must reiterate that my 07 six speed manual has no drop in revs exceeding 1000 going up through the gears. 1500 seems a bit much unless you're referring to an automatic. Cheers.

 

To shift, you actuallly pushed down on the stick to disengage the clutch while changing gears.

 

I saw an old Mercedes with a Hydrak transmission at Goodwood last year. Had a vacuum valve that disengaged the clutch when you touch the shifter. Pretty cool, but the owner said it takes some finesse to drive it smoothly.