I believe the S comes with bigger brakes and suspension than a NonS as well as Clutch components(manual) Also the wheel base width is different.(Handling).The DTC, is it really necessary in a commuter/comfort car? Of course opinions vary, but I believe the OP is in AZ. Not a lot of snow or icy road conditions that I know of where DTC is advantageous.

 

So DST would just be a waste of money? Not gonna lie, I'm still not sure what it is. All I was thinking when I added that along with the sports suspension is that it must make the car better to drive.

 

I'm no good at talking to dealers. How would you talk them into free stuff? Once you order the car they pretty much have you don't they? So you have to kinda agree to things like this before ordering right? Free floormats sound nice. I'm in no way obligated to order if I just go to the dealer and do a test drive/play with features right?[/QUOTE]

I told my MA it seemed a lot of money to pay for a car without anything for free and asked for the floor mats and plate holders.... They threw in the mud flaps before I could ask for them... But I understood prior to ordering the price for special ordered cars. They did offer to bargain on the price of in stock cars however. hope this helps

 

I was referring to DTC(Dynamic Traction Control) an option . I believe all models have DSC(Dynamic Stability Control. I wouldn't call any feature a "waste of money" but as an option you should read what it"s advantages are and whether you need them. For me, I was interested in the LSD(limited slip differential) but after speaking with my MA and considering how I would drive the car, I didn't really need it. You will find differing opinions as well. It is exciting though isn't it?

 

Brakes: Yes, the S brakes are slightly bigger... it also weighs more. Either way, it's a slight difference that would be easy to compensate for. With all stock components: Slight advantage to the S, probably. If you go with upgraded brakes, advantage Cooper due to less weight.

Suspension: The "Sport Suspension" on each are virtually identical. No advantage stock or aftermarket, except that the Cooper weighs less.

Clutch components: Not really sure what this has to do with handling.

Wheel base: I can't find any place that says the suspension track-width is wider on the S than the Cooper. As far as I can find, assuming the same wheels, the track widths are the same. I would like to see proof one way or the other, however. Advantage: ?


I didn't buy DTC because I have snow or ice in Florida, I bought it because it comes with EDLC (an electronic LSD)... something that has received good reviews as far as improving handling on the JCW, which has had it for a while.


Point is, a similarly equipped Cooper is very comparable to a Cooper S as far as pure handling is concerned. The S has a brake advantage... the Cooper has a weight advantage. That's pretty much it as far as inherent differences. Both can order the Sport Suspension, use all the same aftermarket suspension/brake parts, etc. The S has a power advantage, sure, but as far as handling goes, they're virtually identical.

I'm not saying that everyone has the same thought process as it comes to Coopers, and that everyone should get the DTC and such, but if you want great handling and don't need the extra power/cost of the S, the Cooper can give you that.

 

Sorry, if you thought I was commenting on a non S's abilities. I was merely pointing out a couple of differences. You also misunderstood my comment regarding wheelbase width, if you look at any MINI technical drawings you will see that the wheelbase width (center of wheels) is actually wider on the Cooper than the Cooper S. They are both great cars..

 

No apology necessary...

The implication seemed to be that the Cooper was somehow an illogical or inferior choice for handling purposes... and I didn't want other people looking at Coopers to feel that they NEEDED to buy the Cooper S for the famous MINI handling.


You didn't specify, so I ASSumed you were saying the Cooper S was wider. Do you have a link to these drawings? I'd really like to see them as I was under the impression that the two were the same.

 

Go for the rear fogs No sport suspension

 

The Specs or Tech drawings are on the brochure as a line drawing, check out the dimensions
Cooper Front Dimension Center to center57.4 inches
Cooper Rear Dimensions 57.8 inches
CooperS Front57.2 inches
CooperS rear57.5 inches
Cooper Body Length145.6 inches
CooperS Body Length 146.2
Wheelbase is Equal (Center toCenter)

 

Very interesting... I wonder where the difference comes from?

Could it be that the offsets on the 15" wheels are different than the 16" Wheels?

Which brochure is this, btw? The "main" brochure that has all the color options and such listed in it?

 

I wouldn't call it a waste of money, but if you aren't pushing any limits (due to racing or weather), then the DTC (and EDLC that comes as part of that) aren't going to see a lot of use.

As for the Sport Suspension - the gen2 (07-09) cars have a stock "sportier" suspension than the 02-06 cars as I understand it. Definitely take a ride in an 09 with sport suspension (and ideally not on a perfectly smooth, flat road) and one without.

 

Every brochure they have that has specs..Even the website under Specs.. Check it out for yourself, I have no alterior motive or reason to make it up. By the way I dig your car. Really cool color,looks nice with the tinted window as well, Good choice

 

I would forego the sports suspension and simply upgrade your rear anti-sway bar to a JCW or some other aftermarket like Alta. this way y'll still have the fairly compliant highway ride, yet it will still keep the car more stable in the twisties than the stock rsb.

 

The S uses a LuK dual-mass flywheel, which is heavier, and cannot be turned/trued. Coopers have standard (and less problematic) flywheels.

 

Good to know the Cooper's is less problematic.

 

If your driving normally in the city/suburbs (not racing etc) the regular cooper with no suspension upgrades is fine. This is just my opinion

 

Absolutely... I have a Cooper w/ the "base" suspension (because I plan on upgrading) and it is an absolute BLAST to drive... and in most street situations, the DTC's ELDC isn't going to kick in, anyway.

So, no, neither are necessary for a VERY fun-to-drive Cooper... meaning, much more fun than 98% of the cars you see every day... but if you're looking to do some serious corner carving, you may want to pick up the Sport Suspension (or not, and go aftermarket or JCW) and the DTC w/ EDLC.

It really just depends what you're looking for.

 

w0rd. I made another MINI to refelct what I've learned here:
My 2009 MINI Cooper
Base MSRP* $18,550
Destination & Handling $650

PAINT IT
Black Roof/Mirrors $0
Black Bonnet Stripes $100
Mellow Yellow Body Color $0
White Turn Signals $100

PACKAGES
No selections in this category

PERFORMANCE
Dynamic Stability Control STD
Front Fog Lamps $250
Xenon Headlamps w/Power Wash $500
Rear Fog Lamp $100
Rain Sensor and Auto Headlamps $250
6-Speed Getrag Manual STD
15" Rotator Spoke (Performance) $0

COCKPIT
Sport Seats $250
Chrome Line Interior $250
On-Board Computer STD
Anthracite Headliner $250
Cloth: Checkered Carbon Black/Black $0
Leather Sport Wheel w/Multifunction $250
10-Speaker. Hi-Fi Sound System $500
Interior Surface Piano Black $250

TOTAL MSRP AS CONFIGURED* $22,250

JOHN COOPER WORKS ACCESSORIES**
No selections in this category

GENUINE MOTORING ACCESSORIES**
No selections in this category

TOTAL ACCESSORIES ** $0
TOTAL MSRP AS CONFIGURED* $22,250

TOTAL COMBINED $22,250

:S it seems empty to me without any performance upgrades, but since I don't intend to drive through a blizzard or hot rod it I shouldn't need them.

I kinda wish they still offered the gauge cluster options so it's all on the steering column. I think that looked sweet, and very functional.

 

Oooh. Me likes!

It's all personal preference, but I would offer these modest tweeks.
- delete the white turn signals. You're getting mellow yellow, the white turn signals won't really add or subtract from the mellow yellow.
- delete the front fogs. I don't think they're very functional with xenons. I can barely tell they're on. You'll still have the lights down there, but they'll only function as driveway lighting (?)

Ok if you insist...one more tweek.... Get the S and you'll get the sports seats. I personally don't drive fast (so I think), and I've never experienced torque steer (but I've seen it on youtube), but it's really quite exhilirating to feel that turbo kick in when you're feeling a bit frisky.

 

I'm more interested in fuel efficiently and comfort then power. S looks tempting but no, too much a price jump for me

The front fogs look so nice, even if I never use them. I'll have to see in person what is in place of them to decide if I really will get them.

But you know. It kinda looks sharper with the non-white turn signals. I guess I just kinda automatically added them without looking at the car. Guess it comes from originally wanting a white one...well actually a purple haze one but they stopped making those before I could even get my drivers license

 

Tucson? Never considered Fog in that area, sure your not seeing Driving Lights?
thought the Fog Lights on the front were hidden inside the existing parking lights.

Having MY/B, I agree on not needing white turn signals with that color.

Before final order, might be worthwhile to test-drive w/wo Auto Air.

I Only got it because I had to have the sunroof and it was in the 2008 Package w/ AutoAir & HiFi.
(like buy one ~ get one free)

Would never have ordered it, but after having it I would recommend it, nice to ride cool
while other MINI owners complain about lousy Air Conditioner performance and I don't even need to close the sunroof.

When the weather is cool, it waits the two blocks needed for engine heat before starting.
Controls never need touched.

As for the HiFi, I like it and I am not one to ever add aftermarket premium sound,
so I was lucky that it was part of the package.

Of course, I did have to pay for the MFSW for Cruise Control.

I do like my Rotator Spoke wheels with Summer Touring Tires (no All-Season with them )
and they are easy to clean brake dust, but be aware that they weigh 2# more than default wheel selection.

Don't know how much difference two pounds (per wheel) of un-sprung weight amounts to,
but minimum unsprung weight is always ideal.

 

I meant the fog lights in the bumper. Thinking it'd be better to have lights I don't use over some cheesy plastic black grills ya know. On the MINI maker thing whenever you take away the fog lights in the front that area goes black, so it is hard to tell what is there.

I'm really particular about certain things with my car. That is a reason I wanna custom order mien instead of choosing one from dealer stock.

 

No fog lights in my bumper and no black grille except for the large air intake,
(you can order chrome for that, if you want).

The upper half of the small lower light port has parking light and fog light would just complete that lense.

Now there is a black insert in the rear (only one rear fog light on justa'Coopers) and if that bothered me,
I would install the extra brake light to fill that space (aftermarket kit, about $45).

 

Oooh. Cool! Thanks. The image in the custom builder is misleading.

 

Yeah it is!

I thought there would be empty holes if I didn't get them based on the configurator.