Right on!!

 

Mc\MCS\JCW is definitely impacting TS factor as at least these cars differ by the amount of torque transferred to front wheels.

The second group of factors should not matter. At least when we speak of situations these systems are not engaged (yet).

Also, I cannot understand why rear sway bar installation would impact TS. If it impacts one... that most likely was not the torquesteer but something else.

As I mentioned earlier, the Mini Cooper might be just too eager to change directions when the front wheels are unloaded under hard acceleration. In situations like this stiffer SB reduces body roll and minimizes body movements... which (movements) might have provoked direction changes which you will felt at the steering wheel more until the SB installation....

Anyway...

 

yeah, that just doesn't compute for me either

 

I have an 08 MCS with auto climate control and quite honestly it's pretty lousy! Every other car I've had with climate control I would just set the temperature at 68 degrees summer or winter and it remained comfortable. In the Mini I need to "manually" adjust the "auto" temperature control to be comfortable. This is my main complaint with the Mini, otherwise I just love the heck outa this car!!

 

The auto AC is great, the heated seats work great even in Texas!

 

Contrair, as DSC, DTC, eDLC & LSD all impact how torque is controlled and/or distributed. Everyone of them impacts all aspects of TS and under/oversteer. Whether it be by controlling how torque is distributed by engine throttle suppression by the DSC, braking on a spinning tire with the eDLC or biasing torque through the LSD.

Until the 2009, DSC could NOT be fully disabled. But with the 2009 you can fully disable DSC, but if you have DTC then it kicks in using eDLC. Then if you have an LSD it's biasing is mechanically controlled and is impacted by how severe you corner in combo with pedal pressure.

So YES they do come into play, whether or not you think they do. My experience racing BMW's has shown me that you are never free of some kind of controlling factor built into their cars.

Also, nobody has mentioned alignment as an impacting factor. Camber, Caster & toe in/out all impact a cars steering performance and TQ. I can pretty much guarantee all yah all's cars don't have the same alignments specs so this to falls into the equation.

As I said, Apple's and Orange's...

 

Apples and oranges are the whole point behind all the variation in MINIs! TS will vary depending on your particular MINI. But I thought this tread was about what first time MINI owners think and there are a lot of variations to our MINI. A previous poster just said he wasn't totally satisfied with the auto AC, but I am, go figure - everyone is different.

 

Yes you are correct as well as comments/opinions about TS, understeer and oversteer. So every posters comments are relative to the initial point of this thread.

Mine are as well since if you noticed on the bottom of my 1st post in this thread I signed with:
I pick her, Sliver, up on the 16th and chances are that we will have a whole new opinion that pertains to "First time MINI owners... so what do you think???"

Being one of the 1st, if not the 1st, 2009 MCS owner with this combo of options, I expect to be very opinionated in my critique of it. What's even cooler is my test drive home from the dealer will be around 500 miles through multiple flavors of terrain as I have to stop off in Seattle to pick up some race wheels and Hoosier A6's to put on her for februarys AutoX race, weather permitting that is...

RODD
'I love apples and oranges'

 

These systems are available at RWD cars as well. So should we say RWD cars have torque steer due to tire braking, for example?

The only difference between RWD and FWD cars is - throttle suppression affects steering (front) wheels in FWD cars. But if throttle suppression causes torque steer feel at your car, you must feel steering wheel pulling to the side each time you accelerate and decelerate yourself. Does it matter whether DCS cuts throttle or you do this? If you do feel consistent pool to the side each time you accelerate then you do have torque steer. If you don't then you don't.

Again, I'm not saying Mini drivers do not feel anything at their steering wheels due to all those systems.... It is just ... not the torque steer by definition. That's something else.

 

What would that something else be??? When the TQ causes TS

 

The difference is the steering wheel is not connected to the rear wheels on a rear wheel drive vehicle.

And yes a rear wheel drive does have this type TS effect, but it is known as throttle steer where you can effectively cause oversteer and/or understeer using throttle input. And yes DSC, DTC and LSD have effects on this too.

The difference between FWD and RWD is that you feel these effects through the steering wheel, which unnerves some people more than others...

 

That's ok; the back seats are already useless.

 

I have a Twin Turbo Corvette and can launch it from a stand still and the only steering input I give is to keep the car straight if the rear wheels break loose......If I get a good bite its a straight line. My rear is posi so the power is layed down the same on each wheel. Its not the same condition....

 

I've had my MC for about 5 months now, and it is the best car I've ever owned. No complaints so far.

 

I have had my JCW for a about 6 weeks now. I love it for the most part.

On the plus side:
The car is a blast to drive and mod. Its awesome that almost no two MINI's are alike.
I love the laser blue color.
This forum and the MINI community at large is awesome and quite helpful.
People come up to me left and right to talk to me about the car. Never had this happen before with any other car.
The sunroof is huge and I am waiting for the spring to come so I can drive around with it open.
I swapped ot the MFSW for the leather JCW wheel. It is a major improvement.

On the negative side:
The fit and finish on the car is not what I am used to coming from Toyota SUV's and BMW's. I have brought the car back a few times already for little problems. Prestige MINI's service dept in Mahwah, NJ is very professional.
The HIFI stereo is horrible.
The climate control does not function properly. I have had many cars with climate control. I would set it on 72 and that was that. I am always changing the temp on my MINI.
I was adjusting the rear view mirror the other day and it fell off in to my hands. WTF??? I managed to put it back on after searching for help here on NAM.
The OEM parts and accessories are unreasonably priced. More so than other brands. And I am used to the BMW parts pricing.
I am having the JCW suspension installed next week. That is the suspension that should have come standard with the car.
All JCW cars should come with the JCW aero kit as standard eqpt.

Other than that I am happy with my purchase. I plan on keeping the car for a long, long time. Just as long as the car continues to run well.

 

Maybe we aren't so much comparing apples to oranges as we are comparing Gala apples to Fuji apples to Granny Smith to Red Delicious, etc.

 

To end the dreaded TS debate I must assume since some don't feel any there could be reasons for that....not everyone drives their car hard and may not feel it....others like me who push my cars pretty hard feel it clearly and then there could be other factors that make it less noticable. For some its no big deal and probably expected some TS in a FWD car. At the end of the day it is a great car and am 100% happy its in my garage

 

2008 MCS, got it in July.

I like that I can't fit more than 2 people, even kids, in the back.
I like the manual trans, too much fun.
I like going around corners at speed, way too much fun.
I like opening the windows and sunroof in the summer and pretending I am in a convertible.
I like the way it looks.
Pushing "start" makes me smile every time.
I like that there is more space for stuff than you think.
I like the gas mileage.
I like parking in small spaces. I also like all the parallel parking I don't have to do anymore.
It's easy to wash it myself, no ladder or bench needed.
The turbo exhaust sound is simply the coolest.
I like making U-turns instead of 3-pointers.
I like the Bluetooth.

I don't like banging my knuckles on my travel mug when I am in reverse or 5th gear.
I don't like that the rain-sensing wipers can't figure out what to do about snow.
I don't like the stereo.
Vitamin Water bottles do not fit in the cupholders.
Antenna flags are very noisy.
I don't like bad dreams about being crushed by a semi.
I don't like the armrest/rear cupholder.
I don't like runflat tires.

 

They fit in the rear cupholder.Maybe that the problem.

 

Got my 2008 PW/B MCS about a week ago.

I'll be posting more as I get to know the car, but these are my first impressions - I've tried to be as unbiased as possible.

You should probably know that I've owned and driven only Honda's my whole driving career. 89 Civic, then 91 Accord, then 99 Prelude.

The positives:

Responsiveness. In all senses - steering, acceleration, handling etc.
Turning circle. Amazing compared to the Hondas, even the smaller ones.
Bluetooth. Although its a bit annoying that it automatically connects as soon as you get in the car.
Seats. Comfortable yet very sporty. A rare combination.
Build quality of the interior. Looking at the previous generation Mini, looks like they have improved on this drastically.
The size and feel of the steering wheel. Makes you feel like you're Fernando Alonso.
3 driver accessible cupholders instead of two.
Hill assist. God how I love the hill assist.
Almost everything else that's been said above, especially the torque.

The negatives:

I have the manual climate control and it's not much better. The interior is always either too hot or too cold.
Which brings me to my next point of the interior control layout. The climate control is down near the gear shift, causing me to have to glance down very often in order to adjust it.
I don't like that there is no space between my left leg and the door. That bothers me for reasons that are tough to put into writing.
The rain sensing wipers are *****.
The whole hatch release setup really bothers me. Even if there was a trunk release inside, I suspect it would do the same thing as the key fob - just unlock it. So you have to put your fingers under that groove (which isn't much of a groove) so you end up with muddy rain on your hands. The same thing happens when you're closing the hatch - you really cannot do it without touching the outside and again dirtying your hands if its been raining. I know that sounds a little OTT, but there you go.

 

Just a brief comment on your loving the hill assist. I lived in Britain for five years and learned that every car since day one has a "hill assist", it's called the hand brake. When on a hill with a manual transmission car one simply pulls up the hand brake. When the light turns green simply ease out the clutch and release the hand brake at the same time. Dead simple. I'm absolutely amazed at the non use of hand brakes/emergency brakes in the US. What do people think they were built for, looks?
I agree fully with you re the hatch, what a mess.

 

There are handles on the inside of the hatch that you can use to close the hatch. Simply pull down swiftly and the hatch will close and latch.

 

Had my 2009 Cooper S for almost a month now. I love it. First car I have ever had where I look for an excuse to drive.

Pros:

Handling
Sport Button
Convenience Package
Bluetooth
Cornering
Leaving everyone behind when the light turns green
Parking
Black with beige tan
Grocery shopping!
Individuality - no two are really alike
iPod adapter
Ambient lighting!

Cons:
How can auto-A/C not be standard? Seriously? My wife's Honda has an A/C that is 100 times better.
Can't get used to the volume button being away from the main controls. Every time I feel like turning up the music, I accidentaly change stations.
Cup Holders.


That's all I can think of.

 

Took me a while to get used to the volume **** as well...but after a couple of months I have finally mastered it...I think they put it there because the one on the speedo control is high up...thats the only thing that makes any sense.

 

Why not just use the volume control on the steering wheel?