I don't really care whether MINI "fixes" the pipes or not, but here are a few thoughts.

Many MINI owners are not knowledgeable about cars. The MINI is just a cute car that gets good mileage. Their kids, significant others, friends, etc. may know even less. That exhaust pipes can be hot may not be part of their knowledge base. For someone who works on cars, it is second nature, but I would guess that is less than 50% of MINI owners.

How many other cars pose a burn threat to someone accessing the boot? With motorcycles, tailpipe burns are something one might expect. I don't recall it being an issue with any other cars I've owned. Often the tailpipe is well inside the bumper so you can't hit it with your legs. This sets the standard for people's expectations with cars.

A burn can be a very painful and serious injury. For a woman who cares about how her legs look below the knees, a burn could be very upsetting. Possibly a career killer for a model.

Was MINI negligent in considering this hazard? I don't know. It would be interesting to find out if they considered it, and what the reasons were for not putting them out of harms way.

There are hazards that some products have that can't really be removed. Smashing your finger in a door is one of those hazards. Crashing in a hang glider is another.

Some hazards are preventable at expense. When companies opt to save the money, rather than protect the customer, they run the risk of having to compensate the injured. Ford decided to save money on the design of the Pinto. IIRC, they considered the hazard and decided it would be less expensive to compensate the victims (according to internal memos). The loved ones of those who burned to death as a result of the cost savings sought compensation (if not vengeance). McDonalds chose to over-heat its coffee without considering safety consequences (by their own addmission). One victim sought $20,000 for eight days in hospital, multiple skin grafts, and debridement. McDonalds said no, so it went to court and the stakes got much bigger.

What was MINI thinking when they put hot tail pipes at the position where most people would stand to access the boot, and designed it so the bumper didn't prevent your leg from touching the pipes? It would be interesting to know how this decision was made.

 

You are completely correct; I don't understand why you would claim to understand the ramifications of your actions and then completely ignore those ramifications to intentionally harm yourself. Are you too lazy to bother with common sense?

You are going about this with a skewed approach. You know the tailpipes are a clear and present danger, yet you're still questioning why. "Are they still a danger, let's find out.....OWW!" You need to learn from your experiences or you'll end up burning yourself again, unfortunately.

Who are you to determine normal behavior, and thus the authority on what "should" be modified? Have you conducted a survey on peoples habits with McDonalds coffee and MINI boot usage? You probably have not, because I haven't recieved a survey. Thus, your generalizations are based on your agenda. I rarely use my boot, because the MINI is not a utility vehicle for me. Thus, the rare occasions I do use the boot, I remember that A) I don't want to push my pants against the paint and risk scratching it, and B) The tailpipes are there, silly! For someone like ori that uses the boot on a "normal" basis, shouldn't this become a common, second nature behavior? Do you even have any paint left on your bumper from rubbing against it so much?


We're having this discussion because it's apparent some people have a tough time accepting responsibility for their actions. People that burn themselves on the tailpipes are not actually the victim. The car did not run into them and actively burn them. They are victimizing themselves by blaming the car, blaming bad design, blaming others on the forum that say they're irresponsible, blaming anything but themselves.

Here's a fix: If some people find they can't resist running into the tailpipes, it's their responsibility to modify the car to fit their disabilities.

 

Yah, what were they thinking putting the exhaust at the back of the car?!

 

Well, I did burn my shin just a tad and I did it just once. After that you learn to keep your shins out of the way. I've had 30 years of small pickups and I went to the MINI as a replacement. 14 mpg versus 32 mpg. I keep my rear seats folded down all the time and have a MINI boot cover that protects the back from dirt grime and the wear and tear on the back of the seats. My rears seats were in the upright position on the drive home from the dealer and that's been it. I'm in the printing business and this is my delivery vehicle. I've had 8 cartons of envelopes in there before. Burn yourself once and you learn. If they have a recall and put in recessed pipes I'll probably just forget to go.

 

Oh jeez, sorry I misunderstood. I thought Ori and others were interested in helping Mini improve a great car. What a dope I am.

Seriously though, please forgive my sarcasm above. The original post does cite 32 incidents officially reported and there's bound to be many more unreported cases. Whether this warrants a recall or just an easy fix in future model years I'll leave to the "experts", but surely it is legitimate for posters to let MINI know they can do better.

On the bright side, you could start a new "Hacksaw your Tailpipes Mod for Dummies" thread.

 

Here is a pic I took today with my camera phone of the hot exhaust tips protruding probably around 2 inches or so out from under the rear bumper.When cold about flush with it:



2008 MCSa
Production Date: 2/27/08

 

Wow. Let me try to understand this.
Because the car did not "run into" me and "actively burn" me, I'm not a victim.
Interesting logic.
So, if my toaster oven shorts during the night and burns down my house, I'm not the victim because the toaster did not actually come after me.
If my child gets his head caught in the bars of crib and gets hurt, he's not the victim because the crib didn't "actively" harm him.
If my child is poisoned because of lead from the paint of a toy, she's not the victim because the toy didn't go after her.

Let's be serious, for a moment.
I have no problem taking responsibility for my actions. I haven't sued anyone and I haven't asked BMW to admit fault. I leaned in and burned myself.

Here's what I'd like:
If the next model Mini has the tailpipe tucked in a couple of inches, fewer people will get burned. If BMW offers a recall that might save a child from getting hurt, I'll say thank you and take them up on the offer.
That's it.
If you're against changing a design to prevent injury, then you're the one with the problem, my friend.

 

Unless i missed it,does anyone who has been burned,or has just an opinion,have a recommendation for a fix to the problem.Q

 

Thanks for posting that picture - mine do NOT come close to protruding that far out... and seeing YOUR picture does look like a 'burn hazard'. Are you shooting this looking straight down? I just came back from running around, my pipes are hot.. and I'd have to really look at it from an angle to even make them come out 1/2 as much as your photo. The pictures I posted are from a production date of 8/4/08. If you did indeed shoot from the top straight down, than either some cars end up with protruding pipes, or they already have changed the design. As I was outside again looking.. the ONLY way I could burn my leg is if I put my foot UNDER the bumper. Standing normally and reaching far back into the car isn't going to burn my legs.

 

I'm sorry but I'm not convinced from this picture that the exhaust protrudes 2". By looking at the picture I see the bevel in the tip of the exhaust pipe. Where the bevel starts to where the tip of the pipe ends is 1/2".

 

So, Ori. If you walk into a tree.....are you a victim?

 

You are welcome and yes the picture was taken looking straight down.I could feel the heat on my leg as I reached in the boot to remove my groceries but didn't touch either of the exhaust tips,fortunately.I do feel very sorry for those that have burned themselves or their young kids got burned from them.

 

What were they thinking when the put the pipes in the center of a hatchback, and had them stick out farther than the bumper?



Maybe they were thinking that it looks so cool it will increase sales enough to more than compensate for any possible law suits. Maybe it never occurred to them that people would put their leg up against the bumper to access something through the boot hatch. It would be interesting to know what the thought process was. I enjoy watching How its Made on TV. I guess I'd also like to see a How its Designed.

 

Yah, but it's not like it's the only rear-access-trunk car with rear exit exhausts that poke out past the bumper. The 4 cars in my driveway all have rear hatches for storage and all 4 have exhaust tips that stick out (2 audis, a mazda, and a MINI). They may not be in the direct center...but people just as commonly stand to the side while unloading the car.

They put it at the rear and in the center because that's where many of the classic mini's had their exhaust. It's a retro styling cue. And it comes out the rear rather than the sides because side-exit exhausts are illegal in many places in the world.

 

This is the key point for me, and why I'm not writing off the customer complaints as without merit. For all of my (I suppose brief) experiences with automobiles, coming into contact or being in close proximity to the exhaust has never been a concern. The opportunity to learn that particular lesson never presented itself with any of the automobiles I've used.

As my current job is in the medical devices industry, I'm very sensitive to issues of safety (the FDA has strict regulations regarding safety and effectiveness of medical devices, as you may know). If there is an opportunity to make the product safer (reduce the likelihood of burns), I'm all for it.

 

Maybe they should have designed the pipes like they do for the clubman. Dual piping, but one on each side.

They would really boost sales if they changed the design to pipes coming out the side haha (well holes behind the doors)

 

You'd still have the risk of burns. I've had 3 incidents of burns among various people on my MC which has one exhaust on the far side.

 

HOW'S ABOUT A BIG STICKER ON THE BOOT??"Warning:Mini ownership has been proven to cause a slight burning sensation."....and oily discharge...ewww!

 

Here's a picture of my June 08 build, they stick out enough to get burned if not careful. It's in the government's hands now, we'll see what they decide. If they do a recall those that want it fixed can and those that don't, don't.

 

victim: (noun)
1. an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance
2. a person who is tricked or swindled

I wasn't the one that started using the term victim.
However, in this case, I would sumbit that definition 1 WOULD apply whereas definition 2 WOULD NOT.
ori

 

Another good picture, and confirms that my tailpipes are NOT sticking out as much as earlier production date models.

 

Okay this morning I took a pic of the exhaust tips before even starting my MCSa and here it shows them in the retracted (flaccid) state as oppose to the extended (erect) state in my prior pic post #106:

 

I will admit that the tailpipes on my MCS don't stick out very far - about an inch. However, it's not a question of how far... the question is this:
When you get close to the back of the car with your leg, does your skin come in contact with the hot tailpipe first, or the cool bumper?
On my car, the first thing I contact is the tailpipe.

 

Funny...